Bamboo, comments from people who have it...

i'd love to hear from people who have Bamboo flooring in there homes.
im probably going to put down solid bamboo flooring in my living room, dining room and bedrooms...

i really like the pattern of the Envirochoice, Vertical cabronized...

any suggestions, comments...

thanks much !
LinoD

We installed natural finish vertical grain bamboo flooring in our kitchen. I really like the way it looks. I did the install myself and it was pretty easy.

Be wary of the light colored natural finish...it shows dirt very badly, which is a bit of a problem when you have a 1-year old and a shedding dog...

I had just under 1000 sqft of bamboo installed in my house. We used vertical grain, solid bamboo. I love the way it looks, but it is about as hard as a warm stick of butter. It seems like anything I do creates a big gouge. The gouges look horrible on the pre-finished AL oxide boards.

Just to temper that comment, Ive never owned a house with hardwood floors. Therefore, I dont have a good comparrison.

I would agree that it is not the hardest material and does show some dings. Now that I am stuck with it, I prefer to think of it as character.

AA

Character...that is the same kind of kind-hearted response I receive when I agonize over my dented floor to guests. That is also a good, positive outlook.

However, when I stood on a chair (with felt on the bottom of the legs) to reach into my hall closet, the chair slid about 3 under me. Somehow, the felt compressed enough to allow the wood legs to gouge these big ugly marks. These marks light up as the hall can lights shine off the floor, and it serves to remind me that I paid 10,000 for a floor that I cannot comfortably live with. Then again, like any new car, your second through 27th scratch gets progressively easier to live with.

...this is what i was worried about. i just read somewhere that when Bamboo is carbonized it gets softer.

ah crap...what to do !? i love the way bamboo looks but i know that all the dents are going to kill me...but i love the way it looks

then again, i have a few wood samples ( red oak, carbonized bamboo and maple) at home and i did the drop stuff on it from shoulder high test to see which type of wood bruised the most...my findings, they all bruised the same amount.

oh well...

A 100-lb woman wearing spike heels* will put some pretty good dents in an oak floor. I think you have to accept that dents and dings will happen. Scratches you can control to some extent by making sure that the floor has a good-quality polyurethane finish and by keeping it reasonably clean.

-Steve

*In the interest of nondiscrimination I should point out that a 100-lb man wearing spike heels would do the same damage.

Steve,

Is there a common definition for *spike* heel area?

Mike

I am in no way a fashion expert, but I do recall looking at the heels of some of my mother's shoes, many, many years ago. As I recall, the heels had small steel end caps. The overall diameter of the steel end caps was about 1/4, but they were slightly dished, so that the actual contact area was probably only about 3/16 in diameter, or even less. A diameter of 3/16 works out to 0.028 sq in, so a 100-lb woman (or man) balancing on one spike heel would be around 3600 psi. Ouch. Good thing I'm not into SM.

The last time I looked closely at a spike heel was back in the mid-60's. It's entirely possible that spike heel technology has advanced since then.

The reason I mentioned the spike heels in the first place is that some years ago, someone who had been in the floor maintenance business told me that they were the scourge of his field. He told me to look closely at wood floors in public areas (e.g., a shopping mall). They're always peppered with small round indentations from spike heels.

-Steve

That is interesting since the the spike heel, or American fashion, also plagues the aeronautical engineering field as well. Often, one of the driving load cases for sizing the honeycomb sandwich panels used as floor diapragms for commercial jets is the heavy-set lady in heels load case.

After countless engineers spend countless hours collecting data and analyzing dynamic aircraft math models for loads using the most advanced software on earth; one part of the aircraft ends up being sized on American fashion.

I love America.

I installed 500sf of vertical carbonized bamboo flooring in my house, including a stairway. We bought it from www.ifloors.com for around $2.50/sf. It is quite soft and dents easily. My understanding is that the lighter color is somewhat more dent resistant than the darker. We have no pets or children, and have been careful with our floor (no shoes). So far it has held up well. That said, I am very happy with the look of the bamboo, and I would definately install it again. If you do the installation yourself, it can be quite inexpensive too. If strength is an issue, one thing to consider is compressed bamboo or strand flooring. There is a show room here in Boulder, co. that sells it. I went out to take a look, and could not believe how dense and hard the compressed bamboo was. I am sure that it would stand up better than oak. I believe you can buy something like this at www.plyboo.com. The shop here in boulder, www.fourwindsbamboo.com, quoted $5.75/sf for the compressed, after a little haggling. That is all.

_kirk

We had light bamboo floors in our last place, and I'm trying to convince my wife to do our new place as well. While we had a few gouges (couch legs left some bad ones when we vacuumed), they were so evenly spread that they didn't stand out too much. We considered refinishing the floors when we sold, but the estimate came in at about $2500 (it was ~1200 square feet). I understand the floors we laid could be re-sanded up to three times, and would've leveled out with each sanding (there were subtle grooves in the top of each plank when originally laid). I see Costco also now carries bamboo flooring by the box.

A woodworking trick for wood with dents... A hot iron and a damp cloth (if your floor has a finish, you are going to want to test this in an inconspicuous area - such as in a closet). The steam that's made basicly injects the wood with moisture causing it to expand back to (pretty much) its original form. This does not work so much with cuts or gouges, as the wood fibers are actually broken. Just thought you would like to know... :zz:

That works for bare wood, but once it's got a film finish (e.g., polyurethane varnish) on it, it's pretty hard to get the steam in.

But it's definitely a trick that sees a lot of use in my shop.

-Steve

We have lots of bamboo flooring here at work, in the office halls and on the open spiral stairwells. During the past couple years, they've refinished and/or replaced portions repeatedly. The place was brand new when we moved in! Our facility is now fully staffed but it's not so busy that these floors should require so much attention. Love the bamboo flooring look, don't like that it seems high maintenance.
Sorry that I don't know what kind of bamboo flooring they used, I'm only a lab rat here.

I think the brand of bamboo flooring may have a lot to do with durability. There are many species of bamboo that are being used for flooring, but really only a couple of species that are truly suitable. It could be that the reason the bargain-basement bamboo is only $1.99/sq ft is that it is of significantly inferior quality.

The same issue exists (or at least used to exist) with hardwood floors. You can specify maple floors, but whether the wood is sugar maple or silver maple makes a tremendous difference in durability. Hardwood floors have been around long enough that the most egregious fly-by-night vendors are now gone, but bamboo flooring is currently in that shake out period where you have to be especially careful.

-Steve

I'm also interested in having bamboo on the second floor of the house we're building. I just spoke with a woman at the floor store and she said that all bamboo flooring is compressed and that most of it is carbonized. (True, or no?) She said that Hoboken and Waverly produce a quality product.

Yesterday when I told our architect that we were considering bamboo, he told me about a friend who had to get his floor refinished twice only two months after having the floor installed because the sun had caused extreme fading. The saleswoman told me that it does react poorly to sun...which is a bummer because we love big, open windows.

But on a brighter note, I was told it can go in the bathroom and does very well in a wet environment -- which is why I was considering it in the first place.

Jennifer

I don't know if most of it is carbonized or not, but you can easily get it either way, so it's up to you. The carbonized material is indeed somewhat softer, about 20%, but it still compares well to hardwoods.

With respect to all bamboo flooring is compressed, I believe she was referring to the basic manufacturing process for all bamboo flooring and plywood. But there is a specific product that is made from bamboo strands (leftovers from the normal manufacturing process) that have been glued together and compressed at much higher pressures than the regular flooring. It's sort of the OSB of the bamboo world, and is supposed to be much harder. (Although I've noticed that EcoTimber has stopped listing it, so it's possible that there was a problem with it.)

I don't understand how refinishing would help a fading problem, unless the problem was with the finish itself. Color changes are inevitable with most materials, including hardwood floors as well as bamboo. (If someone wants to see just how much a floor can change color, they should install an unstained cherry floor.) I suspect that carbonized bamboo floors are more susceptible to fading than natural ones.

I think anyone considering bamboo would do well to carefully read the warranty offered.

-Steve

What would be considered a good warranty for bamboo?

J.

I think you should look for a lifetime warranty on material and manufacturing defects, and at least 25 years on wear-through of the finish (for prefinished flooring).

The problem with any warranty is that it's usually non-transferrable, but I don't see any way around that.

-Steve

I am thinking about using bambbo floors in my new house, but after reading these posts, I am seriously reconsidering. Has anyone used Duro stained bamboo floors?

We put in 1800 sq. ft. of plyboo strand - it is compressed,mixed with glue, and very hard. On the whole, we are very happy with it - alas, it does scratch. I think where it really shines is in water - we had a dishwasher accident, and a washing machine problem, but the floors did wonderfully. The scratches, well, we have gotten used to them - if you rub them with a little oil, they don't stand out at all, and the floors are beautiful. I can email pictures if you are interested!

Christel
Christelk@adelphia.net

First off, I am president of Fair Pacific Bamboo Flooring, just so ya'll know. I hope this contributes to the discussion, I don't want this to come across as ad.

Those that are selling bamboo as harder than all known construction materials are just doing everyone a disservice. The fact is, natural (color) bamboo AVERAGES around maple in hardness, maybe a little harder. Carbonized is softer, due to the carbonization process, usually around maple in terms of hardness.

Hardness varies with a number of factors including growing region, age of harvest, time of year, and some other things. We go out of our way to try to minimize these variable with our products... for example, we only use 2 factories in the same quality bamboo farming regions so that we get a good consistency of product. We don't buy random planks at auction like many companies do. This helps with consistency.

But if you're buying a product for its hardness, you'd do better with a brazilian cherry or Ipe, or similar hardwood.

Next, scratching and hardness aren't the same, but some companies will have you believe it is. Scratching is affected TO SOME EXTENT by the amount of aluminum oxide in the finish. Most companies are advertising Klumpp finish these days, but that is just the brand name of a patent process and doesn't necessarily equate to quality. Quality is affected more by how much finish is applied, how much Aluminum oxide is in each coat, etc.

That said, planks finished with aluminum oxide WILL SCRATCH, especially if dogs or gravel or any of a myriad other things get between it and your feet.

Generally speaking, the higher the gloss and the darker the plank, the more the scratching will be apparent. This is because the scratches tend to be whitish and show very well against a dark plank. This can be minimized with a number of products on the market, Floor Revive being one.

We have been sensitive to scratching for our customers, and are using much more aluminum oxide and a less glossy finish so that any scratches that do occur don't look so bad.

Finally, it's important to note that bamboo is a natural product, not a silver bullet. Buy bamboo for its look, its natural beauty, its environmental friendliness. Realize that it will age and this truly DOES contribute to its beauty.

Sorry, I had a typo in my above post... for carbonized, I meant hardness is around walnut, not maple.

Natural is around the same hardness as maple.
Carbonized is around the same hardness as walnut.

Thanks for the straightforward comments. I think I speak for the others here when I say that we appreciate good, solid information from vendors. As consumers, we are constantly faced with the task of separating the wheat from the hype, and it's helpful to read some well-reasoned prose. (At least it LOOKS well-reasoned.... )

To some extent, we're responsible for the hype machines thriving as much as they do. If, instead of chasing after the latest and greatest, we spent more time doing our homework and maintaining a healthy level of skepticism, the hype machines would eventually wither and die.

-Steve

No problem at all. We think it's important to educate our customers on bamboo flooring, not just slap some in a box and ship it. Then we would just have unhappy customers.

-Greg Pasquariello
Fair Pacific Bamboo Flooring
www.fairpacific.com

For what it is worth, at CA BOOM II I spoke with the representative for Plyboo there, and he said that typical bamboo floors rate at 1500-1700 PSI(?) for hardness, which matches white oak according to him. The BOSB, or strand type flooring rates at 2600 PSI. At least I think he said PSI. Perhaps he was talking about the pressure needed to manufacture, not the actual hardness, which is usually measured on the Rockwell scale. Someone help me out here. Anyway, the point he was making is that if you are concerned about wear, the BOSB, or strand type flooring was a better option.

-R.

Yes, it's psi. It's measured by something called the Janko test. I've only been able to find out a little about the way the test is performed, but I gather that a hardened steel ball (I don't know the diameter) is pressed into the surface of the material under test until the amount of indentation reaches a certain value (again, I don't know what that value is). A simple calculation based on the force required to create the indentation, and the depth of the indentation, can be used to determine the pressure (which can be expressed in psi) at the interface of the ball and the deformed surface.

What does the number mean? In rough terms, it means that if you apply a pressure less than the measured value, the material won't yield, and if you apply a pressure more than the measured value, the material will yield. But that's only an approximation, because during the test the material has [em]already[/em] yielded and become compressed, and so its characteristics aren't going to be the same as that of the normal, uncompressed material.

The higher value for the bamboo strand flooring means that it is undeniably harder, but it's not clear how that translates into performance as a flooring material. Wood and bamboo are very inhomogeneous materials, and that lack of homogeneity plays a big role in how they behave. In playing around with samples, I've noticed that the individual fibers in bamboo (they look like miniature soda straws) are very tough, but they're embedded in a matrix that is noticeably softer. I think the strand flooring (I don't have a sample) has more of the individual fibers and less of the matrix material, and that may be at least partly why it's so much harder.

The Rockwell test is similar, by the way. There are actually several Rockwell hardness scales, for different ranges of hardness. When you read about, say, the hardness of a chisel, it will be something like RC 50, which means a value of 50 on the Rockwell C scale. Hardnesses on the C scale are measured by using a cone-shaped diamond indenter and a 100 kg mass to apply the pressure. A conversion chart is then used to convert the amount of indentation to a number between 1 and 100. Higher numbers denote harder materials.

-Steve

We are in the process of building our modern home and have considered using bamboo from day one. Our choice...vertical grain/carmelized. We love the look of the bamboo. I'll share our observations at this point in the process. Where we're at...

We need to decide which product and contractor to use in the next two weeks.

We want to use the bamboo for the flooring (Entry, LR, Office, Master and Stairs). One product we are considering is Teragren.

Here's a link to Teragren's test results: [url href=http://www.teragren.com/tera_flooring/test_results.asp]http://www.teragren.com/tera_flooring/test_results.asp[/url].

We found out about the Teragren product from one of the flooring contractors who bid on our project. We know through research that he is one of the best (if not the best) quality flooring contractors in the city and his bid certainly reflects this. He said he has had great success with the Teragren product over the past couple of years. Our attraction to the Teragren product is the versatility with the stair treads, panels, etc., that we need for our wrap around stair case, landing, etc. The contractor mentioned that he also been pleased with the consisetency of the product as well. This is another plus.

Another product is Pacific that was given to us by another contractor a couple of months ago. We are going to meet with him again next week and I will be getting more information from him on the manufacturer.

Our concerns at this point...

We've been given bamboo samples (started the house process over a year ago). The variation in the color is considerable. In fact, we cannot choose stain for interior doors until we finalize our bamboo choice. We want to ensure a close match and we're not comfortable at this point with the variation between the products plus the variation within the manufaturers product themselves.

The quote for the Teragren (plus the premium for the quality contractor) pushes the bamboo flooring well beyond our original flooring budget. However, since we're dealing with bamboo, we're highly concerned (as is the builder) about the flooring chosen and contractor. For example, we could choose an oak and a contractor (not the most expensive) and it would be fine but the bamboo is somewhat of an unknown beast.

So....our questions at this point are:

1) Do we bite the bullet and pay the premium knowing we'll have complete confidence in the product and contractor?

2) Take a chance with a product that appears to be of good quality from a contractor that the builder has used in the past and has done extremely good work?

3) Switch to another product (oak?) all together.


Our next steps are to fill in other flooring numbers (tile, rubber flooring, stained concrete), meet with another flooring contractor about his bamboo product, and obtain other bids which will give us a clearer picture of where we stand. This information will be able to help us make a decision.

I appreciate all of the feedback on the forum. I look forward to reading more comments. Thanks to everyone for sharing your insight.

Tammi

Hi Folks,

I am in love with the dark, nearly black, bamboo floors.  I have installed a 'test' in my 1-year-old son's room.  It scratches white.  I am prepared to live with a certain amount of scratching, just not sure how much this floor will scratch over time.  Does anyone have the following info:

1.  How does the dark bamboo stand up over time to high traffic & abuse

2.  Is there a polish or 'touch up' that will cover scratching without re-finishing the whole floor?

3.  Does anyone have dogs & kids with a dark floor? 

I really want to install the floor in the whole house, I just don't want to regret it.  Any feedback would be wonderful!

Michelle