Modern kitchen cabinets - Ikea to Pedini to Balthaup

I know there have been some threads on kitchen systems in the past but it seems most of them focus around particular brand names, etc. We historically used Ikea cabinets in our projects and have found them to be a great buy for the money (typically around $6,000 installed) but have had a hard time finding a "next step up" modern cabinet system - something in the $10,000 to $20,000 range. Siematic, Balthaup, PoggenPohl, Nell, Belle, (the list goes on) are all nice kitchen systems, but range in price from $60,000 to $90,000 for a large kitchen (35-45 lineal feet)

Thanks to Diane Duffey on the lead for Pedini. I am having them price out some things. They appear to be half of a Siematic kitchen (around $30,000-ish) but am looking for more midrange options. Anyone know of any? Seems like there is a HUGE gap in modern cabinet systems from the low end (Ikea) to the high-end (Siematic, Balthaup) that someone should be working in? I wish Ikea would come up with a premium line that is $10,000 to $14,000 a kitchen.

Our experience with Ikea:

1. Good value
2. Readily available (under 4 weeks)
3. Decent door styles (although with Hallarum gone and black/brown unavailable, it is getting worst)

Anyone have any leads or ideas?

Thanks,

Jason

 

We have 23 linear feet of base cabinets, 10 feet of tall/pantry cabinets, and one island 64x48" -- just to put our bids into perspective.

 

 

Another line to consider is Alno.                http://www.alno.com/

 

Their rough quote to us..

AlnoLook: $29,750

AlnoSign/AlnoTop: $39,600

AlnoArtpro/AlnoArtPrime: $46,700

 

 

Valcucine was recently recommended to us.  Local contact information is below. I've not seen the cabinets yet, but there's a showroom not too far away that I'll be going to on Wednesday. They emailed me the Valcucine catalog. These guys really push the "green" part of cabinet building. I've heard that their price will be a bit more than Pedini, but is supposed to be competitive.

 

valcucine@styleandform.com

 

 

 

For the complete range.... Pedini came in just under $40k and Ikea is under $5k.

 

I still prefer the Pedini look to Alno.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the additional info. It seems like if you have $50,000+ the options are limitless with high-end modern kitchens. I am finding hard to believe how all these manufacturers stay in business since it is a rare occassion that I see anything like it.

We live on the peninsula, midway between San Francisco and the Silicon Valley. There's so much being spent on kitchens here, it's ridiculous. Average quotes are $150k. That said, most people are still doing more traditional looks, and the "craftsman" kitchen is still big. I'm honestly not finding that the quality of the higher end European cabinets to be any better than Pedini, actually, many to me compare to Ikea. That's fine, except for the price tag and the marketing hype.

I went with Bulthaup, but I feel that I could have achieved the same L&F with Ikea. I am experiencing some quality issues with door hinges and the bar top. The key to a great kitchen is great appliances and an awesome counter top.

 

 

 

We were looking at Scavolini and Leicht and these are more in the 10K-20K range you're mentioning.

The kitchen looks great Stephanie. We're planning to do a stainless steel counter top on the base cabinets and glass for the island.  For appliances, we're going with the new Freedom line of Thermador for the fridge/freezer and range, with mixed others for the steamer, microwave and dishwaser (drawer)

Thanks. All your choices are beautiful and quality choices. I had a tough time when the first scratch on the stainless occurred. I hope you handle it better than I did. Post some pics when you're done.

 

We're still in the planning stages. We're pretty much going to gut the main level of our house, and so this is part of a much larger project. I'm expecting February timeframe for the kitchen.

Hi, we went with Leicht, and after two years we're still glad. We found the prices in that mid-point range, and we also were lucky enought to win some of the cabinets free during an anniversary event at the vendor showroom. This isn't the best pic (with the pantry door open) but it will give you an idea. Besides the green cabinets you can see, there are metal-sided cabinets, rounded, on the ends of the counters at the other end of the island...it's looks a bit like "mini galvalume".

 

 

We went with valcucine with a very balthaup layout - huge l-shaped island.  We wanted hanging cabinets.  We also struggled with the price of balthaup - it was twice Valcucine.  We loved Valcucine had ribbed stainless steel in two different shades.  We are going with that  one color on the island theother on the main part of the kitchen.  We are using quartz counters and glass on our bar area.  Valcucine has beautiful and expensive glass cabinets too.  We are also using the Thermador freeedom line for fridge and ovens.  We got a straight line (4 burners in a row) from foster cooktops.  We are using a miele dishwasher and a F&P drawer dishwasher.  I will post pix when it is installed. 

I'd say that the next step up from Ikea would be the KraftMaid Venicia

line. It's probably around twice as expensive as Ikea (or more, depending on door style and finish), but less expensive than any of the other lines mentioned here. It definitely fits into that gap between the ultra-cheap and the higher-end. Their website is somewhat out of date, as I recently looked at these in a store and noticed that they had a number of new finishes and door styles not shown on the site, but it should give an idea of what they have to offer.

 

 

 

We looked into the KraftMaid line. It's pretty rare, I guess fairly new, and most retailers aren't carrying it yet. We were able to take a look at a small installation in San Francisco. The price was going to come in under $13k for the kitchen, but I must say, we weren't all that impressed with the final look in the showroom. The door style that we preferred has an acrylic finish that scratches easily, and so the salesman said it does not do well in a house with children. It looks great in the catalog though. I think I actually prefer Ikea to what I saw of the KraftMaid first hand.

Yeah I agree with Diane, I am not buying the current acrylic high gloss trend. I prefer a warmer, natural look.

kraftMaid's quality is bad.  We went with ArcLinea.  Their price range is similar to Alno.

Two other names that have come up in my research are Porcelanosa and Berloni.  My understanding is that these are both in the more "affordable" category.  However, I have not had the opportunity to personally price them yet.  Has anyone had any experience with either of these brands?

 

Alytrain

 

Hi Jason Here are some articles on cabinets - some more traditional, but many are modern. If you click onto the 5th page of results, there are a whole heap of modern ones, including the attached image from NY Loft: "Recent additions to the NYLoft lineup include the Kermesse kitchen, suited to multi-unit projects or more modest budgets. Another newcomer is the refined Monolit, suited to high-end, custom projects." Hope this helps http://trendsideas.com/ListArticles.aspx?category=132®ion;=4 Tom

AFIK, Ikea's Nexus Brown-Black doorstyle is back in action as of now.

you said:

"I wish Ikea would come up with a premium line that is $10,000 to $14,000 a kitchen."

 

Are you not buying it because it doesn't cost enough, then?  Because that's what it sounds like to me.  If you need to spend the extra money I can help with that

Assuming you can now get Nexus BB, and aside from being restricted to their standard selection of sizes, WHAT is it that IKEA is missing that would make it "premium" in your opinion?

 

 

 

I would also be curious as to what specifically it is about IKEA that the OP is alluding to. In my experience it would have to be their somewhat limited doorstyles, and limited cabinet sizes, because their cabinets and hardware are equal to anything out there. The hardware is Blum, which is the standard in euro -style hardware. The boxes are made of particle board, yes, but there really is no advantage to solid wood or plywood boxes. Solid wood moves too much to be reliable AND you are cutting down trees to make it. Plywood is dimensionally superior to wood, but you are still cutting trees. Particle board is quite dimensionally stable AND a green product, especially when you consider that IKEA cabinets are made to European out-gassing standards. Once you screw your cabinets to each other and to the wall and mount a countertop to them, you won't be able to move them regardless of their construction. Additionally, it isn't really that difficult to work around the cabinet size limits. I would venture that the true limiting factor of IKEA is the need to roll up your sleeves and deal with the design and ordering issues. That is not attractive to some folks and I understand that. The fact that one of the earlier posts referred to her Bukthaup kitchen and believed that she could have gotten the same look and feel from IKEA speaks volumes. Imagine the money saved! I recently finished (mostly) my own kitchen. I used IKEA. I wasn't expecting to like it as much as I do. My Dad has been selling kitchens in L.A. for years - he has sold everything from Woodcraft to Snaidero. Even he was impressed by the Ikea kitchen. Is it "the best"? Probably not, but it is not fairly judged by it's price, that is for sure.

Splatgirl,

Glad to hear that Black Brown is back in play. The context of my post is not about wanting to pay more for a kitchen and gain nothing out of it. Yes, Ikea is the best bang for the buck. But not everyone wants to drive a Honda (Ikea) or can afford a Range Rover (Baulthaup).

If you are a detail oriented person, you can defintely notice a difference between Ikea and a Italian/German made kitchen system. It is just better made - it feels better. Besides, Ikea lacks really good colors these days.

I have found a local kitchen dealer that sees the same problems in the market and is building a new line of kitchens right along the lines of what I am looking for with an unbelievable selection of colors.

I will post photos of the first install!

 

Previously Splatgirl wrote:

AFIK, Ikea's Nexus Brown-Black doorstyle is back in action as of now.

you said:

"I wish Ikea would come up with a premium line that is $10,000 to $14,000 a kitchen."

Are you not buying it because it doesn't cost enough, then?  Because that's what it sounds like to me.  If you need to spend the extra money I can help with that

Assuming you can now get Nexus BB, and aside from being restricted to their standard selection of sizes, WHAT is it that IKEA is missing that would make it "premium" in your opinion?

 

 

 

 

Maybe besides starting an entire new line of cabinets, someone could start a nice business by manufacturing a selection of doors designed to fit the IKEA system..... -R.

I completely understand what you mean about that high end Euro cabinet "feel".  

 

Aside from a few minor issues, I am a skeptic when it comes to believing that IKEA's offering can be improved on significantly enough that it would not still be a better value.   I think that says a lot about IKEA but considering there will likely never be anyone that can compete with them in scale, it's not surprising. 

Maybe this is the explanation for why there really isn't such a thing already?

 

Then again, I drive a Mazda, not a Mercedes. 

 

Previously richierod wrote:

Maybe besides starting an entire new line of cabinets, someone could start a nice business by manufacturing a selection of doors designed to fit the IKEA system.....


-R.

 

yes!  great idea!  I think Scherr's might sort of already do this, although without a modern bent.

Richie,

I actually had this conversation with the cabinet guy last week. He is looking into it.

Usually we use Ikea door frames and have custom rift cut white oak doors made and then stained. It looks great, but it is tedious work when you do a lot of kitchens that way. This guy made me a sample kitchen door that looks just like one from Alno - complete with aluminum edge banding which you could never get out of Ikea. I will post photos when the kitchen is installed.

 

Previously richierod wrote:

Maybe besides starting an entire new line of cabinets, someone could start a nice business by manufacturing a selection of doors designed to fit the IKEA system.....


-R.

 

Poliform makes excellent cabinetry

I am looking for modern looking cabinets that are durable and reasonable.  I have 2 kids and would like to use a green or sustainable material.  We are strongly considering Pedini or bamboo.  My concern with Pedini is that they are expensive and the lead time is 5 months.  Anyone have any thoughts/ideas on what holds up well and looks great?

so has anyone installed Pedini and do you have any experience with the durability?  I really like the integra line but want to know how it holds up considering the price.

A couple of ideas I might throw out there:

1. use a cabinet maker.  purchasing cabinets from a cabinet company requires you to pay for their showroom, marketing, shipping over long distances, sales staff...etc.  have you seen bulthaup's catalogue?  It's stunning!  which means it's expensive to produce...and they give them to architects free of charge, which means the consumer pays for them.  i use a handful of different cabinet makers...depending on the client's expectations and budget, i have one that usually fits well.  make sure you use a cabinet maker who can provide shop drawings for approval so there are no surprises.

 

2. ditch the overhead (upper) cabinets.  build in a walk in pantry for floor to ceiling storage.  install a counter top and outlets in your pantry for small appliances.  install windows over your counters if you're on an exterior wall, or don't put a wall over your cabinets at all if it's interior.  while upper cabinets can provide needed storage, they close your space down visually.  a small pantry and a base cabinet using a storage system like Blum offers can drastically reduce the amount of cabinets you really need.

 

good luck!

Would you mind sharing who this local dealer might be?  You are absolutely right about the gap in the middle of the market.  There are lots of options out there, but the design options and value propositions generally aren't quite right.  We're renovating a 1957 modern here in Dallas and have decided to put in a bare-bones temporary Ikea Varde freestanding kitchen until we can find a good solution.

 

Makes sense but not really true...

1. The cabinet maker doesn’t have the purchasing power that a large company has - he pays a lot more for his materials, hardware and anything else he needs to make his product.

2. Cabinet makers today do not really make much - they purchase ready made parts and then assemble them and maybe finish them - again, they pay too much... purchasing from a second or even third hand.

3. Cabinet makers can't afford state of the art machinery - companies like Pedini, have machinery that can cost over a million dollar each (!), just for one function in the making of your cabinet - let's just say edge bending. The cabinet maker does that by hand or uses primitive tools - don't be surprise that the edge is starting to peel off a year later...

4. cabinet makers can make the simpler designs - I haven't seen one yet that can make a cabinet like Pedini's Integra or Dune and if you can find one that can and his quality is half way decent, guess what - his price will be double!

 

Good luck!

 

kitchenguy

 

 

The only thing I can agree with in your post, kitchenguy, is number 4. It's true that curved forms are expensive to for a small operator to make.

Items 1-3 do not reflect my experience in the cabinet trade. Even a relatively small shop can afford equipment that lets that shop build quality cabinets with Euorpean (Blum, Grass) hardware and design features. Quality of finishes is exclusively down to the skill and motivation of the individual cabinetmaker.

Re: richierod's post: