Kitchen Cabinets
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We are looking for a good and inexpensive cabinet maker in the NY Metro Area. In the Oct/Nov Issue of DWELL - there was a mention of Korean Cabinet makers in Queens, NY - Does anyone know how to contact them or of any other cabinet maker in this area?
Thank you
[url href=http://www.chelseakitchens.com/]Chelsea Custom Kitchens[/url] does nice stuff. Ask about the Effeti line, which is more affordable.
:: christy ::
As with Allmilmo, GEBA is another european line of contemporary cabinetry that is affordable. Affordable relative to the likes of Poggenpohl or Siematic or Boffi, etc.
They were supposedly ~1/3-1/2 the price of those major hi-end brands, which were asking ~$50k+ when I got quotes years ago.
There's always IKEA!
Try KIPRO in NY, too. All SS kit from Italy.
Since when did $45K for cabinets for a small kitchen become affordable? I dropped by Chelsea Custom Kitchens over the weekend and I was impressed by the Effeti line's design. However, I was put off somewhat by what you're really getting for the exhorbitant sums of money- MDF, thin wood veneer, non-dovetailed construction, etc. Don't get me wrong- it sure beats most of the stuff you get at Home Depot... but it also literally costs ten times as much and doesn't seem particularly durable.
I wonder if anyone has any firsthand experience with Les-care cabinets (http://www.lescarekitchens.com/index.asp). They seem to offer a large range of modern kitchen cabinets (including some aluminum styles) and the prices seem to be pretty reasonable. I noticed that the Consumers Kitchens on Long Island (http://www.consumerskitchens.com) carries them.
There is always IKEA!
Well, I recently spent a whole bunch of hours looking for modern style kitchen cabinets for under 50k. I just did not have even 20k in my budget when I got to this point on my house, so I opted for a temporary solution, IKEA TALBOs.
Ive began to place these cabinets in my new house, they have really grown on me. Odd thing is, they are made of most the same materials as a 20k italian modern cabinet set (particle board rather than MDF, and verneers/laminate with aluminum self-closing drawers and laquered drawer fronts). Well, I spent a total of $1600 on my kitchen cabinets. Originally, I figured the Talbos, at 8% of the cost, were definately at least 8% as good. As time goes on, I think they are at least 75% as good at the italian modern cabinets, and I can put a brand new SCION tc in my garage with all the money I saved.
IKEA may not be the best, but they are undeniably the best value.
I build custom cabinets in CT. I do most of my work in the Metro area. If you would like a quote contact me and I would be happy to discuss your project. I offer handbuilt quality with Modernist design sensibilities. Also I provide detailed shop drawings of all proposed work.
Ben Tamsky, Woodshop Services
(860) 536-3361
[email]Bentamsky@cs.com[/email]
Check out custom builders that are not necessarily a big business. Where I live, there are supposedly tons of such creatures in Ann Arbor, MI. I found one, but never got far enough to get quotes, because I had to drop my dream house plans.
Anyways, what I discovered was that a custom cabinetry builder COULD do what you wanted with style and quality materials for LESS... maybe even really affordable!
Hardware is the major element and most all of those hi-end euro brands share/source that from a handfull of hardware producers like Haffele, etc. Some even make the glass/metal-framed door units, too! Good hinges, good handle selection, good slide hardware, etc. can be had and enable such a wood worker to assemble an essemble that suits your needs.
There's this company in Niagara Falls on the Canadian side that makes cabinetry... including a modern line that seems pretty nice and supposedly more affordable than those euro brands. Never got quote though. Toured factory and they seemed pretty professional... not too big, not too small.
I really dont see why people bash ikea stuff. Like with anything else you put together yourself it depends on how you do it. If you take the time and make proper joints (ie glue and screw) it will last as long as anything else.
Anyone who would pay over 5k for kitchen cabinets has more money than sense imho
Like anything else you usually get what you pay for. The advantage of working with a custom fabricator is that your budget dollars are directed towards the elements of the product that are important to you. A good designer/fabricator can tailor his product to his clients needs and budget. Instead of paying for worldwide marketing and production you could be paying for:
a. design that meets specific requirements
b. product that actually fits the space allowed
c. personal service when changes are requested
d. etc.[email]Bentamsky@cs.com[/email]
I disagree with getting what you pay for. To get what you pay for would be a wonderful accomplishment these days. It seems you typically get a whole bunch less than you pay for (from all objective measures) anyhow. Though some people feel getting to tell people their cabinets are X Italian name brand is getting what you pay for. For the rest of us working folk, buying the cheapo italian cabinets at 20k that are made from particle board is basically equivalent materials to IKEA for 1600. In this case, you get ripped off by the italian cabinets.
However, I am curious to the idea that custom made cabinets could be affordable. In my experience, custom is a four dollar sign $$$$ word in construction. One man-day of labor in the SF bay area for skilled finish carpentry could easily run 560/day @ 70/hr (low end). If it took one person a couple weeks to build a set of cabinets for a kitchen, you would be looking at 5600.00 in labor alone. Add material costs, and you are well into my expensive range. Perhaps Im looking in the wrong places. My wife's boss spent near 30k for his custom kitchen cabinets for 30' of length. Are these the ranges you would expect?
I recently got a bid from a cabinet maker with a computerized cutting machine (CNC) where he makes some cad files, throws plywood on the machine and your cabinets are ready to install two days later. Our bid was for 18' of lower cabs, 14' of upper cabs (40 tall), 4' of 12 deep pantry cabs and 30 of 24 deep pantry cabs. The bid for the units custom sized to fit the space, built and installed (but not finished) was $12,000. The cabinets were to be frameless with flat doors and made out of birch plywood (paint grade boxes and stain grade doors). I know we had discussed baltic birch or apple-ply, but I cannot remember how he bid it.
We are awaiting bids now, and given the numbers, we may use him. However, we designed the kitchen to the size of Ikea cabinets just in case. Including install, I am estimating the Ikea kitchen will be $7,000 (they usually charge 75% of the cost of the cabinets for the install).
I am all for Ikea cabinets and I have heard they are a step up from the furniture and accessories. I would like to get them to install myself and save some cash there. Also, unless you are wanting really, really new cabinets there's always the option of getting new doors or refacing the ones you have. But if you're like me, you want the new ones with all the bells and whistles.
Some more thoughts on IKEA...
IKEA might not be made of the best materials nor the high-end hardware. What they do have going for them is development dollars. Since they mass-produce their products, they can afford to sink more money in engineering to optimize the end results since this costs ammortizes in large volumes of sales. Compare this to a high-end custom cabinet maker, these cabinets are nice since they use the most expensive hardware money can buy, and hence the large pricetag.
A good example of IKEA's ingenuity is in their self-closing mechanism on their Talbo cabinets. This is something that costs and arm and a leg with other manufacturers. Yet, IKEA figured out a simple and affordable way to integrate such a feature on a 269.00 cabinet. The quantitative analysis shows the ikea self-closing and other more expensive self-closing mechanisms to perform the same - they both catch at the same distance and provide a certain closing force and damping constant for a smooth stop.
With IKEA, I feel I got more than I paid for. Much akin to the fancy italian sports car, the Qvale Mangosta. The MSRP of this car is 84,200. Yet, all objective measures show performance and driver comfort to be well below the common ford mustang for 20-30k. Bottom line is there will always be a market for the material things that have value simply for their pricetag, and not their true value. How else would the upperclass define themselves from the common peasent?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=39article_id=3275page_number=1
We did our kitchen cabinets through IKEA, we had a pretty long run of going back and forth trying to get the right pieces delivered, but we're pretty happy with the end result.
On a slightly different note... I am having a dilemma with my (proposed) kitchen. Now that I am most likely going with a hardwood floor throughout the house, including the kitchen (probably a yellowish colored wood like bamboo), is it overkill to have wooden kitchen cabinets as well? Or would a colored foil finish/MDF laminate look better? I am waffling back and forth because I don't want to go overboard with wood, or risk having contrasting/clashing woods. On the other hand, I have sometimes found laminate kitchens to be somewhat sterile/cold in appearance.
What would you do??
:zz:
By the way, I am kind of liking these cabinets by Quaker Maid (!!!):
http://www.quakermaid.com/009k.php
I'm not sure about the oriental rug in the kitchen however...:laugh:
Consider cork flooring in your kitchen! It really warms up a space, and makes a nice change from hardwood flooring elsewhere. I have hw floors everywhere in my house except for the kitchen, and it really helps to have something different in a room where you spend so much time cooking or conversing with friends etc.
As an alternative to wood cabinets, finished naturally, or foil/laminate consider painted faces. This can either be a shop-applied spray finish or, my preference, field-applied enamel. The enamel can look just as good or better than the sprayed finish and will age better because it will not chip as readily and can be repaired/touched up by the owner. It is important to have a good painter to do the finish, and the primer should be applied at point of manufacture.[email]Bentamsky@cs.com[/email]
What the?! The log in was in German... Was ist das?!
I don't think you can have too much wood. I think the only problem is when you choose a finish that can be dated rather quickly like the ugly dark walnut stains of the 70s and the current coffee or chocolate stains that are all the rage or the icky honey-colored oak of the 80s. If the true nature of the wood shows through, it think it's pretty timeless. I think your walls and counters should break up the wood nicely anyway. Make sure that wood floors in a kitchen are finished really well, they'll take a beating!
We're going to be installing an Ikea kitchen this summer. We have an old house with fir floors. The kitchen floors are covered with linoleum, then vinyl. I've refinished the floors everywhere in the house, but I fear fir is too soft for a kitchen, so I think we're going to take up the old flooring and put in linoleum or marmoleum.
I had the same fears of too much wood, but look at a lot of kitchen magazines- you will see most kitchens with wood floors and cabinets, often different woods. I am planning wood on the floor, cabinets, and a soffit that overhangs the cabinets by a foot, with stainless backsplash and counters. The safe choice would be plaster for the soffit, but I think this will be ok.
So far as cork goes, I know it is in again, but I think it will be out again before too long, as it can be difficult to keep clean. I don't like marmoleum either, because I swear I can smell the Linseed oil for months after it is installed. I have put vinyl composite tile (VCT- the kind they use in most old grade schools) in several kitchens, and love it. It is not only cheap, easy to install, and bulletproof, it comes in tons of colors that look quite modern.
I wasn't aware that cork was ever either in or out. All I know is that it is very easy to keep clean, and it lasts a long time. The cork floors in our kitchen are about 20 years old, and are still looking great.
I honestly think that, like hardwood floors, cork is so _basic_ looking that it never will really go out of style.
[quote:booska format=text/html]br
We did our kitchen cabinets through IKEA, we had a pretty long run of going back and forth trying to get the right pieces delivered, but we're pretty happy with the end result.[/quote]
Booska, We have the same IKEA cabinets for our new kitchen and have been looking for countertops. Yours look great and similar to Caesarstone concrete color countertops. What are they made of?
[quote:m2studios format=text/plain][quote:booska format=text/html]Booska, We have the same IKEA cabinets for our new kitchen and have been looking for countertops. Yours look great and similar to Caesarstone concrete color countertops. What are they made of?[/quote]
Our counters are Formica in their grasshopper color.
[quote:booska format=text/plain]Our counters are Formica in their grasshopper color.
[/quote]
Excellent. That's such a great color. We also are looking into Formica as a cost-effective option incase we blow too much money on labor. It's a better quality material than it's reputation, and pretty resiliant (except for scratches. they're easiest to see on darker colors).
Thanks!
consider metro shelving for your upper cabinets. they would be open - but still function and look real nice. use them with a nice colored wall and they'll stand out and shine. throw some recessed lighting to shin on them and walla. that way all you will need to buy cabinetwise would be your lowers. for an island - get creative. build an island and cover with mosaic and use a thick butcher block surface. get funky with tiling ideas - mosaics, etc. or find an old piece of restaurant equipoment that you can tweak and add to. i used an old metal frame and through a butcher block counter on it. think the frame was $250 and the bb like $225.
anyway - those are my thoughts. there is no way around the cost of cabinetry. it is expensive no matter what company you use. think you have to go a little unconventional if you wanna do a kitchen without plunking down crazy cash.
Does anyone know how the European kitchen mfg's trim their doors in aluminum? It it tee molding or pvc edge banding or something else? Thanks.
Please check out Scavolini kitchens www.scavolini.com Scavolini is competetive on pricing,and has more options to choose from than any other european brand that I know of. I see alot of people going with Ikea in here but I must say looks can be decieving, You do get what you pay for. Also for some reason people are not happy with melamine cabinet boxs' Melamine is actually superior to plywood for the construction of the box. It resists water and stains much better. (i'm talking about kitchen grade melamine) also it's more enviromentally sound than plywood.
-i just got a sample of grasshopper from the factory...nice color it is.
Melamine is a trimer (see polymer ) of cyanamide, H 2 NC[triple bond]N, and is synthesized from calcium carbide. It condenses with formaldehyde to give a thermosetting resin . Melamine resins have many uses, including the manufacture of plastic dishes under the trade name Melmac -from encyclopedia.com
-in other words, it's the glue, not the wood. some plywood is made w/melamine. are you talking about medium density fiberboard (MDF)? or particle board (PB)? either one is a more green product than plywood, b/c they don't need logs to skin to make them (same w/OSB).
-i think MDF is a great product (made of sawdust), and it's perfect for making cabinets and speaker boxes, and it works great in the CNC router (doesn't chip much).
I think what kayne means by melamine is melamine-laminated particle board. I'm not aware of any commercial cabinet manufacturers that use melamine-laminated MDF, although the material certainly does exist.
Even within the realm of particle board there are different grades (ten in all, I think), and you can't tell just by looking at a piece how well suited it would be for kitchen cabinets. Some kinds swell up like a sponge when they get even just a little wet. I don't have any hard evidence, but I suspect that some of the difference in price between cabinets from one manufacturer vs. another is because of the grade of particle board they've chosen to use.
Strictly speaking, MDF isn't made from sawdust, but rather from wood fibers that have been mechanically/thermally/chemically separated, and then glued back together under high pressure with a resin binder.
-Steve
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