What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?
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Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Joel Efrussy at June 15. 2005
I priced a huge 10x14 kitchen with a 4x8 island, 36 lowers, 42 uppers, and 18 upper uppers (a technical term?). The Kraftmaid Sonara in cherry was $7600 basic optionns and $11,000 for premium functions. Maple was a bit cheaper. This was material only, no install. Try HD, you can check out a whole kitchen - nice quality and some ss pulls would give you a very nice, but not slick, look - and they should price you kitchen for free. I would also try a custom millworker, you can probably beat that price if you get creative.
I'm really curious to see if the new Kraftmaid Venicia European/Modern line is priced like their current cabinets (which are very reasonable and good quality).
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Jeffrey Rous at June 15. 2005
Something most people don't know about Kraftmaid is that you can have the boxes made out of particleboard or plywood and with a contact paper or veneer covering. Perhaps oddly, they do not have plywood door options, only solid wood. And if you want a natural finish, you need to go with maple, birch only comes stained. I wonder how hard it would be to get only the boxes from them and then have the door and drawer fronts made out of apple-ply or some such?
You could ask next time you're in the Depot. I know you can order a door with no box, I'd hope you could order a box with no door.
I still haven't been able to find out much about the new line, but it looks like the only natural finish is still maple.
Kraftmaid Venicia collection: (http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=Kraftmaid+Venicia)
small blurb about the release of these lines: http://www.kbbonline.com/kbb/products/kitchen/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000954238
a site that sells them (they say at a 10-20% discount)http://www.buycabinets.com/Cabinets/Manufacturer.aspx?MfgId=106
another site that sells them: http://www.kitchenmaster.net/Cabinets/(click on venicia)
if they look like this...! http://www.kitchens.com/Remodeling-And-Design/Trends/kbis-2005-favorites-1.asp
i'm going to go to Home Depot during lunch to see about these new lines.
Thanks for all your suggestions everybody.
(whoops - repetitive)
home depot (saint augustine, fl, at least) does not [yet?] carry these new cabinets.
but, i did go ahead and get a quick quote, and for all of our base cabinets (the "Premier" brand of faceless cabinets at home depot)in some "spice maple" color (no uppers planned right now), it would be $2060. not too bad, eh?
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Gavin Brown at June 16. 2005
I've just decided on a going with a henrybuilt modular kitchen. It will be under 20K (just) with either a paperstone or firestone countertop. I went and visited with them in Seattle and was literally blown away by the design and craftsmanship behind their modular program. It is simply beautiful...at least to me. Highly recommend them.
Does that $20,000 include all appliances? I was impressed with the images on the henrybuilt website.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Zachary Anderson at June 17. 2005
kraftmaid venicia line of cabinets is being carried by Lowe's. the lady i talked to at a local Lowe's said they will be going to a class on the new cabinet lines soon.
I definitely think this is the way to go. they havea better quality cabinet than ikea, and some really really cool looks, too,
like this one ("Steel Gloss" finish in "Tivoli" doorstyle, from the "Lustra-thermofoil" line).
and that one! ("Chianti" finish in "Alta" doorstyle, from the "Mirra" line)
and you can forego toekicks (or even cabinets)for nice simple legs (like those on the bar there in that picture above). i think my favorite finish is either that red above or the "Tygris" even though it is under the category of "flesh-colored socks."
here's the "Tygris" finish in the "Capri" doorstyle, from the "Lustra-thermofoil" line of Kraftmaid Venicia cabinets (it's a thermofoil finish on MDF slab door/drawer-front, not a real wood)
you really should go to the local cabinet store that sells kraftmaid and pick up the new ideabook and spec book for this line of cabinets.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Jesse Leary at June 17. 2005
Any info on pricing of the Venicia?
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Thomas Anderson at June 18. 2005
I don't know the price range, but here is a source of modern kitchen cabinetry, mostly stainless steel.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Zachary Anderson at June 18. 2005
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Adam Burke at June 20. 2005
Henrybuilt is one of my favorite cabinet makers! Nice choice!
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Jeffrey Rous at July 13. 2005
I have some cost comparisons for our kitchen and a little home office. For what we are doing (all prices include tax, the Ikea price means picking the kitchen up at the store while the others are delivered for the price):
Ikea Nexus: Cabinets $5700; install by Ikea installer; $4275.
Kraftmaid Maple Slab Doors: $7800; Install $2000.
Kraftmaid Venicia Mirra Tivoli: $12,500; Install $2000.
Kraftmaid Venicia Lustra Coressa: $18,500; Install $2000.
Kraftmaid Venicia Natura Prima Maple: $13,800; Install $2000.
A guy at Ikea told me the installers charge (or generally charge?) 75% of the cabinet cost for the install. So that is how I put that number together. All the Kraftmaid numbers are from a local cabinet shop that sells a bunch of stuff from low-end to Kraftmaid to custom.
To be fair, with Kraftmaid, I was able to add on some fancier stuff that Ikea does not make available, like file drawers.
Bottom line: Ikea is the cheapest if your time isn't worth much.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Julie Brown at July 13. 2005
Interesting. I had the opposite results with HD Kraftmaid maple slab doors at $10K and Lowes Kraftmaid Venicia Natura Prima maple at $7800. I guess that shopping around is a good idea! The Lowe's install is $4000.
Wow. That is almost more of a difference than makes sense. Hmmm?
As I understand it, the Venicia boxes are made with 3/4" MDF while the traditional Kraftmaid line can be made with 1/2" MDF or 3/4" plywood (there are two other intermediate quality options). Is it possible that the $10k bid you got included plywood boxes? For my experiment, the Kraftmaid Maple slab option included the basic MDF construction. And I seem to remember the guy told me plywood boxes would add about 30% to the price.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Julie Brown at July 14. 2005
That was for plywood boxes on the traditional line at HD. The price without the plywood boxes was about $1500 less, still higher than the other line at a different big box retailer. There is no option for a non-melamine box. There are good quality and bad quality melamine, but these boxes carry the same Kraftmaid guarantee. I've used Kraftmaid cabinets in two previous kitchens. I might add that the maple slab door looked quite nice in the previous kitchen augmented with a few Shaker style doors with glass.
Ikea uses a metal drawer which I didn't like.
Did you get a price for the Venicia Lustra Marco version? Those are supposed to be the cheapest, but I didn't bother getting a quote for that since I'd actually prefer the traditional maple slab to wood-grain melamine.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Jeffrey Rous at July 16. 2005
Just got the HD quote for the same Kraftmaid kitchen with maple slab doors: $16,500. Can HD really be 60% higher than a cabinet store or did the cabinet store guy (who gave me the quote over the phone) miss something? Hmmm? Ikea is looking better.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Julie Brown at July 16. 2005
Several kitchens ago I got a quote from HD for Kraftmaid cabinets and a quote from a kitchen store for the exact same cabinets (fewer options available at that time) and the two quotes were within a few dollars of each other. My guess is that your two quotes are for different items. HD will give you an itemized quote. Why don't you compare it to the independant's. The best kitchen replacement experience that I've had was through HD. The first kitchen wasn't that bad, but slow. My most recent independant bathroom remodel was a fiasco. Although I'm going with Lowe's this time, I'm kind of sold on the big box, supervisor to call if somebody screws up model.
The HD KD came out to our house and suggested replacing our paneling with some nice drywall. He also suggested putting some trim around our windows. Har. The Lowe's estimator came out and kept saying this is a really cool house. Of course, that didn't influence my decision at all....
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Anders Lansing at July 19. 2005
I did my kitchen for around 10k.I did all the labor myself.I used stainless steel cabinets and sink counter combo from IKEA,all new stainless appliances(not top of the line but good enough),birch ply walls,and black vinyl composite tile for the floors.
It's a small kitchen....most of your costs will go to labor.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Cara Cummins at July 19. 2005
1000.00 linear foot, starting.
Kitchen cabinets: Boston, area. I've read some great discussions about kitchen cabinets at this site. I have been reading these discussions with much interest as I try to find a good and affordable cabinet for my kitchen. I am looking for an affordable modern type of cabinet- probably in a white, (non-wood) surface.
Does anyone have any suggestions for sources of cabinets in the Boston area? Ikea almost moved up here several times. I think it is too far to drive to NJ or CT to order cabinets from them. If things go wrong, it would be extremely difficult to keep driving that far back and forth.
How did the Henrybuilt cabinets work out?
Has anyone ordered GEBA from Contemporary Systems in Woburn.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by Brian Boudreau at October 10. 2005
Ikea in Stoughton, MA opens Nov 9.
I appreciate you letting me know.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by LS at November 14. 2005
Hi, I've been at livemodern for a while now although I am posting for the first time today. I've been reading through this thread and I'd love for some elucidation:
First off, I too would love to get an idea of the Henrybuilt prices. I'm on the east coast and I've only seen henrybuilt on their website but if anyone has priced out a kitchen with them, I sure would love to get an idea of where their kitchen priced in at and for what sized kitchen.
Secondly, I read about several posters comparing IKEA to Brands X,Y, Z. Someone has said that the IKEA cabinets are flimsy, thin, and particleboard. Could you explain to me what was flimsy about them? I actually felt better about the IKEA cabs after I put a couple together - to me it seemed that they were really strong, and after due effort when nailing the backs in, really rigid and really square. I'd love to know what realpill thought was flimsy about them. He said that they can ding, but so does hardwood if you drop something on it. One needs to be careful to prevent dings when assembling any cabinets - it seemed to me self-evident when I saw this statement mentioned in a book at Rockler, but maybe its not so self-evident.
They are 3/4 thick and seem to have the same kind of melamine veneer as the Scavolinis I've seen. Secondly, as best as I've understood this furniture business, plywood is not necessarily the better than particleboard and certainly, for frameless cabs like the European styles, particleboard appears to be the better bet since it is even less likely to warp than PB. It doesn't do well with screws, as a result screws are not used to assemble the cabinet carcass. Traditional styles which use frames apparently do fine with plywood, but I understand that the frameless requires far greater rigidity and shape holding capability than plywood can give.
Is this info incorrect? Its derived from reading various furniture makers bat concepts about.
Lastly, Poggenpohl's melamine on what is again particleboard is fantastic. It is smooth and thick and confidence inspiring. Of course, it also costs a pretty penny. So I can see a clear difference between IKEA and Poggenpohl. But I had a really hard time seeing how Scavolini was superior to IKEA - the melamine wall thickness was just the same - at least to 4 of my 5 senses (I didn't taste either of them). This was true of the EXPO Dinovo cabinets as well. Exactly the same kind of melamine, 3/4 PB. Other than the fact that Scavolini and perhaps Dinovo offer greater variety, does anyone have a core qualitative comparison between the various cabinet boxes? IKEAs are 20mm which is a little bit more than 0.75. I think that Scav and Dinovo are the same. Poggenpohl maybe more, I don't know.
Lastly, the Poggenpohl kitchens are lovely. My only opposition to them are purely moral. I've heard a couple of buyers (1 or 2 from Poggenpohl, 1 a Bulthaup shopper) remark that they learned that the price they paid for their kitchen cabinets was literally TWICE what it cost the shop to buy and ship from Germany. That kind of markup - 100% - was what horrified me. Not just that numbers. I priced out my kitchen cabs and counter (no appliances) and it came in at about 50K from Poggenpohl a couple of years ago - I don't believe that number included installation. While that number brought me up short, the fact that that same kitchen would have cost me about half if I purchased in Europe and had it shipped, brought on my religious opposition to purchasing from there. I do so love Poggenpohl, though.
I'd love any elucidation of this, if at all possible. Thank you so much.
Re: What can $20,000 get me for a modern kitchen?Posted by kayne bancroft at November 14. 2005
Hi, if you have been on livemodern you have probably come accross my posts. differences in Ikea to scavolini, As to to carcass (melamine box) yes ikea and scavolini use 3/4'' melamine. Scavolini uses kitchen grade particle board for the substrate, which means if water was to somehow penetrate the melamine it would hold up better than furniture grade. to be fair I do not know what type Ikea uses but if you were to cut open the melamine and it was green then it would be the kitchen stuff. Another difference is how they are constructed, scavolini and the others you mention all come built, not flatpacked like ikea. this does two things, one it is much stronger, (glued, doweled and nailed) and there are no RTA(ready to assemble) fittings exposed like ikea cabinets. this is more of a asthetic thing especially on the uppers.
As for finishes Ikea will not be able to even come close to Scavolini or Poggenpohl. The quality of the doors and drawer faces from both brands is far superior. A friend of mine who owns A scavolini dealership had a lady come in who bought a Ikea kitchen. She wanted to have her order a door to use for an intergrated dishwasher since Ikea did not make those available. (it was a glossy lacquer) so to be nice she said sure and told the woman to bring in one of the doors so she could match the color. So the Ikea kitchen lady takes a door off and puts it outside to bring in the next day. It rains hard that night, the next morning the door is ruined and almost all the lacquer has come off. After seeing this door my friend does a little experiment. She has an extra Scavolini lacquer door laying around so she throws it in her neighbors pool. It stays in for 3 weeks. Nothing happens to the paint. the door swells a little where the handle holes are drilled but thats it.
Anyway I want to make myself clear. I am not against Ikea. I actually like it and think it's good for introducing modernism to people who might not find it any other way. I think the kitchens are fine for the money and from seeing what some of the people in here have done with them is amazing. The problem I have is when people think they are getting ripped off when the price out the Euro stuff. let me use cars for an analogy, you can go buy a Hynadi or KIA for around ten grand. It will get you from point a to point b . It looks ok it gets the job done. fine. A VW or Audi will cost you double maybe more depending on the model. but there are more features, it's built better etc. You get what you pay for.
thats it. I hope this helps and if you have any questions feel free to contact me.
PS you might be interested to know that the originator of this thread ended up buying a Scavolini kitchen.