IKEA wall cabinet installation

Help! I have a very basic question - what type and size of screw should I use to attach the suspension rails for my IKEA wall cabinets to the wall? I have your typical 2x4 studs with blueboard and plaster over them. I'm worried that if I use the wrong size screw, the cabinets will fall off the wall. I'm assuming I should use wood screws and screw the rails into the studs, but what diameter and length of screw should I use?

I'm going to install IKEA base cabinets too - the instructions say to screw them to the wall through the holes provided in the back panel. But the holes won't line up with the studs in my wall - is this going to be a problem? Should I use drywall anchors through the holes, or should I make new holes in the back panel which line up over the studs?

Thanks for any help!

Wall cabinets: Use a minimum of 3 long #12 wood screws. Some people recommend 1/4 lag bolts; I think they're probably a bit of overkill, but they have the advantage that you can use a wrench to install them, which is a lot easier than using a screwdriver for screws that large. You will need to drill pilot holes in the plaster and studs; the drill diameter should be slightly less than the root diameter of the screws (the root diameter is the diameter of the body of the screw, as if the threads had been removed).

I think the holes in the suspension rail are large enough even for the lag screws, but you may need to enlarge them a bit. Be careful when enlarging holes in thin metal--make sure that the rails are firmly clamped down, as the drill bit can catch the edge of the existing hole and send the piece flying.

Base cabinets: If the person who framed your kitchen was thinking ahead, there will be blocking (horizontal 2x4s) installed in the walls at the right level for attaching your base cabinets. If so, then you have it made. If not, you'll need to drill new holes in the cabinet backs. In any case, walls are rarely perfectly flat, so you'll want to get some tapered cedar shims (you can get them at your local Home Depot/Lowe's-type of store), and insert one (or more, if required) between the cabinet and the wall at each stud, and adjust them so that the backs of the cabinets are all perfectly aligned.

An alternative is to attach a 1x4 furring strip to the studs at the right height (use the shims!), and then attach the cabinets to that strip. The advantage is that the cabinets are well secured right where they need to be, without concern about the location of the studs. The disadvantage is that the cabinets are 3/4 further away from the wall, which means that you might have a fitting problem if you have any corners, and an off-the-shelf countertop might not be deep enough.

If you're not using the furring strip, use 2-1/2 drywall screws to attach the cabinets to the studs. You don't need to drill pilot holes, but you may want to drill holes just through the plaster to minimize cracking. If you are using the furring strip, use the 2-1/2 drywall screws to attach the furring strip to the studs, and then use 1-5/8 drywall screws to attach the cabinets to the furring strip.

-Steve

One other thing: The screws you use for mounting kitchen cabinets are long enough that there is a small but finite probability that you will either drill into or drive a screw into electrical wiring. (Remind me to tell you someday about the time I was standing next to someone who drove a screw into a wire and set off a hydrogen explosion...fortunately a very small one.)

Anyway, if you think there is a possibility that there might be wiring in the vicinity of your mounting locations, you might want to enlist the help of an electrician who has a circuit tracer.

-Steve

Man Steve! We have to get you a tv show!

Ikea's cabinet mounting rail...[url href=http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101storeId=12productId=34418langId=-1parentCats=10110*10652]akurum rail[/url]

Been there, done that. :grin:

Believe it or not, I once had a TV show, of sorts. About ten years ago, the university I was at had a program called AP Physics by Satellite. It was designed for advanced placement physics students at small high schools that didn't have adequate budgets for full-scale physics classes. The schools would subscribe to the program, and would receive, among other things, two live one-hour lectures/demonstrations per week, broadcast to them via satellite--they could even call in during the broadcast. At its peak we had about five or six thousand students across the country. Anyway, one semester the professor who normally did the lectures took a sabbatical leave, and I filled in for him. So, if you look hard enough, you can probably find thirty dusty video tapes of yours truly, squirreled away in the archives of the broadcast journalism department of a certain university that shall remain nameless.

-Steve

Thank you, Steve!

Hydrogen explosion, huh? Reminds me of when the guy next to me in high school chemistry lab decided to squirt concentrated hydrochloric acid into the electrical outlet! Class got out early that day...

-Andrea

I'm installing Ikea cabs at this very moment. It's frustrating but I think it will work out in the end. Got some of my order wrong, so I have 6 hours of driving ahead of me. Their system really works nicely although I despise the fragility of their boxes. I agree with Steve on the screw size. As long as you get a couple in studs it will hold forever. I wouldn't bother with lag bolts.

If you are worried about wiring you can always cut a hole in the wall where it will be covered with the cabinet, look, and then make a sloppy repair. Also, if there is no switch in the wall (either side) or outlet (though wiring for outlets is usually lower than where you'd screw in the rail) you are probably OK. Actually you are probably OK because it is a week after you first posted.

Most of the pressure on the rail is downward so maybe angle the screws a bit downward. Another trick is to put two screws in the stud that you find and angle them in different directions. Then it is much more difficult for the srews to pull out together.

As for base cabinets, the key is to make sure your feet are adjusted to keep the cabinet in place. Then when you screw the cabinets together they become a large hard-to-budge unit. To attach to the wall you can use those screw-in drywall anchors and then you screw into them. Don't drill through the back of the cabinet. It is structurally useless 1/8 masonite.

I'm about to install my cabinets. I have a few questions. (First, can I say how lousy ikea's customer service is? The instructions with the cabinets are ridiculous. It's impossible to get someone on the phone.)

Am I correct that they did not provide screws to anchor the rails into the wall?
Do I need to cut a length of rail for each cabinet, or should I attach the entire rail to the wall?
The silly picture instructions seem to have two options for attachment? What's up with that?

For the base cabinets, I assume that I should attach the feet before attaching the cabinets to the wall? (The instructions show the attachment the page before putting the feet on.)

I can't help with the Ikea-specific question about options for rail attachment, but:

1) You want the rail in as few pieces as possible. Use full lengths where you can. The idea is that the rail helps ensure that all of the cabinets end up at the same level. If you do need to use a cut piece of rail, it will probably work best if you arrange it so that the joint is behind the middle of a cabinet, rather than falling between two adjacent cabinets. That way, if one rail shifts a bit with respect to the other, it's less likely to be noticeable.

2) Yes, you should attach the feet first. Assuming they're adjustable, you should start by adjusting them to mid-range. You want to end up with the tops of all of the base cabinets at exactly the same level, regardless of any irregularities in the floor. It helps to have a water level (cheap) or laser level (not so cheap, but can be rented) to get the cabinets close to their final heights. Then use a standard 4-foot carpenter's level for fine adjustments. Do all of the positioning and leveling before attaching the cabinets to the wall.

-Steve

steve pretty much answered it all. you don't have to go hog wild when attaching the base cabinets to the wall. you'll find the holes in the cabinets will not line up with studs everywhere. I just used some 90lb drywall anchors where it missed. I did not want to open up the wall to add in supports. it's definitely not moving anywhere. here are a couple pics, I just tiled the backsplash the other day, almost done.

That turned out great - well done!

Here's what I don't get. The holes in the back of the cabinet are about an inch diameter. The bolt coming out of the rail is about 1/4. Do I just stick the cabinet on and rest it on top of the bolt? Then I'll only get contact between the bolt and cabinet in one thin place where the cabinet rests on the bolt.

[strong]The bolt coming out of the rail is about 1/4.[/strong]

I don't understand what you mean by this. What kind of rails do you have? Akurum?

It's conceivable that you've got a rail that is newfangled and different, but with all of the European-style rail systems that I've seen, there are no protruding bolts. Instead, the rail acts like one long slot, and there are hooks on the back of the cabinet that engage this slot.

-Steve

OK, yes, first attach your feet, move the cab into place and adjust to make it level. This is tricky because the feet can be kinda loosey goosey, but it works. When you constructed the cabinets, you should have installed 2 L shaped brackets that line up with the holes. These have grooves on them onto which a approx. 1 peice of slightly curved metal fits with the use of screws that you provide. Unless your holes line up with studs, you'll need drywall anchors. The curved metal works as your locking washer.

I guess they don't use hooks anymore -- the rail has short bolts that come out and go through the holes in the cabinet.

Realpill -- it's those groves and the slightly curved metal faceplate that I don't quite understand. Do I want the bolt to be in the center of the larger hole through the back of the cabinet, using the faceplate/groves to hold it in place? or does the cabinet actually rest on top of the bolt, and then the faceplate is put on? the faceplate doesn't really attach to the groves -- I have to hold them in place while I tighten the nut. This seems difficult, unless the cabinet is just resting on the top of the bolt.

Are we all on the same page here? Realpill is talking about base cabinets, but rails are used only on wall cabinets.

I'm confused. :wacko:

-Steve

I thought he was talking about both.

OK, to clarify, for your upper cabs, use 3 screws going into studs. You provide these. Then you rest the cabs on the bolts (have someone hold the cab while you tighten the nut) and fasten the metal 'washer' and nut. The hole is big so you can play around with placement, give or take an eighth inch so the cabs are level and aligned with the cabinet next to it. Once they are pretty much in place, you clamp your cabinets together with C-clamps and screw the cabinets together with provided threaded socket and screw.

For the base cabinets, you want to do most of your work with the adjustable feet. Get them in place, get them level and try to get them tight to the wall. After you've done this, pre-drill holes in your sheetrock for the wall anchors which you will provide. Use the big hole in the back of your cabinet to locate the position for your hole in the wall. Then using the washer, tighten the screw which fits in your wall anchors which you also provide. This basically pulls the cabinet to the wall and gives it extra support. The legs should have been adjusted to put the cabinets in place for the most part.

Does this help?

yes. Thank you so much. The concept of having the big holes in the wall cabinets, with the play as you call it, just didn't make sense to me.

Hopefully I'll find time this weekend to install these, cause I'm tired of living with nine cabinets sitting around my apartment and a lot of broken toes and skinned shins.

well, I'm getting there.
I've got most of my wall cabinets up. I need to make a cut out on one to open a space for the microwave outlet. Any suggestions on how to get the hole where the outlet is?

Also - There are not guides on the doors for where to drill holes for the handles. Do I just guess where they should go and try to get them all in the same space?

The legs on the base cabinets are flimsy and don't really stick in. Every time I move the cabinet to adjust the legs, they just fall out.

the hole for the micro was tricky, at least with mine. where everything lined up it was over one of those metal pins that hold my cabinet together. I ended up having to make a much smaller hole than what the directions recommended and moving it a bit off center of the micro cord. this gave me JUST enough space to get the cord through it and also miss the cabinet pin. get a hole saw for your cordless drill. your micro should have come with a large paper template to tape to the bottom of the cabinet that had the markings for your hole.

yes, all the handles have different mounting spacing with ikea, so there are no guides. I made myself a template out of thick cardboard like paper. I put holes in it for where the screws would be. I'd then measure in from the side and bottom the right amount, put a level on the top of the template, and mark the holes. this allowed me to be consistent. the first one you do will be your standard for measurements. one word of advice here. once you figure out where you want all your handles, hold them in place one at a time and make sure the cabinet doors operate without hitting anything! I didn't do this and had to replace a couple doors because it would hit the fridge, micro, etc. I was using the long aluminum ones.

I don't understand your issue with the legs at all. do you have them screwed out so far that they are barely dangling on the threads? I screwed all of mine tight and worked from there with the leveling. don't forget to back off the plastic jam nut (round black thing) to help lock them in place.

[quote:dstone001 format=text/plain]well, I'm getting there.
I've got most of my wall cabinets up. I need to make a cut out on one to open a space for the microwave outlet. Any suggestions on how to get the hole where the outlet is?

Also - There are not guides on the doors for where to drill holes for the handles. Do I just guess where they should go and try to get them all in the same space?

The legs on the base cabinets are flimsy and don't really stick in. Every time I move the cabinet to adjust the legs, they just fall out. [/quote]

With the legs -- the whole piece falls out of the holes on the bottom of the base cabinets -- they aren't very tight. It's a pain in the ass.

For the microwave, I not only have to make a hole on the bottom for the cord to come up, but cut out a hole in the back for the outlet. That's the tricky one, since I see zero change of my cutting it out in the right place.

Regarding your leg problem, I had the same problem. You just have get them in place and put the legs back on that have fallen off. you can kinda scoot the cabs so the legs don;t fall off as often...

really strange, I had no problems with loose or falling off legs.

yes, I had to cut the outlet hole too. that is much easier than the cord hole. the backing can be cut with a razor knife. just measure in from the edge to where the center of your outlet will be and punch a hole. from there, just keep on trimming away until you expose the whole outlet. your cover plate will make up for any slight mistakes you might make. like I mentioned though, be careful where you are cutting the hole for the cord!

[quote:dstone001 format=text/plain]With the legs -- the whole piece falls out of the holes on the bottom of the base cabinets -- they aren't very tight. It's a pain in the ass.

For the microwave, I not only have to make a hole on the bottom for the cord to come up, but cut out a hole in the back for the outlet. That's the tricky one, since I see zero change of my cutting it out in the right place.[/quote]

Base cabinet time: The pictures show that these should be fixed into the stud with bolt head screws (like the kind that were used to hang the wall cabinets). Yet none of the base cabinets came with these screws. Instead, they all came with regular pan-head (?) screws -- the type the pictures say not to use. ?????

Duh. As with the wall units, they do not include screws for attaching the base cabinets. Would it be so hard for them to write screws not included on the fricking bags?