Weathering Steel aka Corten
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Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Matthew Grummer at February 17. 2005
i'll try and keep this thread going....
i'm trying to find a cor-ten/weathering steel supplier in central/ northern CA or LV Nevada area. any tips?
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by susan gress at March 02. 2005
I am building a houseboat and would like to use the steel/cement board/cedar mix on the exterior. I have seen some pictures where the steel bleeds at the fastening points, running down and staining the boards below it. Not attractive. Has anyone else seen this problem? And, re-the transition between materials, I would love to see anyones ideas. On the La vardera house above, he appears to use standard aluminum windows. Anyone have any opinions on window materials? Thanks much.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Tony Nelson at March 03. 2005
I have some cor-ten covering a portico on my house. It has aged over 20 years or so and it looks great. I need to install some flashing to cover some sky-pointing wood on my house and I'm curious if anyone knows of a cor-ten product that works like flashing, i.e. that comes in long strips about 12 wide.
I would like to maintain consistency by having cor-ten in both places, but perhaps it's not an option.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Bill Win at April 10. 2005
I found a place in Phoenix to get corten but it is around 400 bucks per square (100sqf)
ABC Roofing Supply.
What I was looking for was a corrugated steel that has a powder coat rusted look finish.
It was used on a house at Verado in Phoenix AZ and at DC Ranch Market in Scottsdale Az.
The house is an Idea House for Sunset magazine 2004.
If anybody knows where and how much this powder coat process is and where to get it done or another way to get that rusted look without the wait and the run off I would appreciate it.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by email@example.com at April 21. 2005
I'm at the last stage of design for a custom home in Idaho and we are using rusty metal, either Corten, or tin from http://reclametals.com , they have been a great help. Recla Metals offers some nice profiles over the standard round ribs.
I'm wondering if anyone has any pictures of mixing Corten with straight galvanized. Customer is proposing the walls in Corten and the Roof in galvanized and I would like some examples if anyone has a precedence.
Thanks in advance
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Bob Zipp at May 18. 2005
Some things I know about Corten besides the fact that it is beautiful.
1) It must be installed properly and protected from trapped moisture. Any moisture trapped behind it will perforate it fairly quickly. The television studios at the University of Texas (formerly known as the Rusty Box) were once clad in Corten. It perforated and they tried to patch it with some awful epoxy stuff. The problem was moisture behind the skin. They were unable to solve the water problem. It has all been removed and replaced with some powder coated crud. Your designs must consider the water issue if they are to last.
2) It can never be used in contact with the soil. At the fammous Water Gardens in Fort Worth designed by Philip Johnson and John Burgee a man was killed when a high mast lighting tower made of Corten fell and crushed him. The city grounds maintenance workers, over and extended period of time, had covered the tower bases with soil. The soil moisture rusted the tower through and it fell. One of our parks in Austin has an amazing corten fence surrounding it. I haven't taken a close look, but I wonder if they know to keep the soil off the posts?
3) Beware of dissimilar metal corrosion. Corten may not play well with other metals. Pay attention to what it comes in contact with in your design.
Thass all - FYI
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Mark Meyer at May 19. 2005
By the sounds of it you must be in Austin, no? Be sure and check in over at the Austin Modernists thread in the Austin Regional Forum. The more the merrier.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Gregory La Vardera at May 22. 2005
I don't know if this is a Corten alternative. There was an ad in a recent Architecture mag issue for a galvanized product that sounds like it is supposed to look pre-weathered/rusty? Its called Vintage and its from Steelscape, who is an outfit that produces coil metal. There is nothing about it on their web site so I don't know any details. They make a Galvalume like product called Zincalume, but this is something different.
Here is a description:
Steelscapes Vintage I and Vintage II lines meet the demands of architects and building designers who have expressed a desire for corrosion resistant roofing and siding materials with an aged appearance.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Brian Casey at June 08. 2005
I did some web searching on Steelscape's Vintage products. They tout they have one of the only two paint lines in America that can produce this. This is the giveaway that it is a superficial coating. They had disastrous results when they sold Zactique only a few years ago, a coated metal that was supposed to get 'aged looking'. Sounds like yet another experiment on the consumer.
I also question Reclametals rusty roofing. It may just a cold rolled steel. If it does not have the minimum quantities of certain weathering steel elements such as copper, chromium, nickel, silicone, etc. and is within the maximum limits of other elements (carbon, manganese, and sulphur)as required in ASTM A606-04--the designation required in the ICC AC166--it won't meet ICC requirements and will rust through in a real hurry. Feedback on this, PLEASE!!
I have been studying Cor-ten and the weathering steels a lot lately. There are many installations of Cor-ten steel roofs installed in California in the early 1970's. I personally tested some original, in-place roofing with a Mitutoyo micrometer, accurate to 50 millionths, and found an average of 0.0225 thickness of bare steel remaining from an originally 0.028 thick product. 20% corrosion loss after 30 years. Amazing. Words of warning: as correctly mentioned in earlier dialog, the material design and installation is absolutely critical.
More on this later. There are efforts out there to re-introduce this proven material. I welcome further dialog.
--a first time contributor
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Gregory La Vardera at June 08. 2005
bcasey - I'd like to hear more about your study of Cor-ten. People are constantly looking for guidance about how to use it for roofing or siding, and of course the lawyers tell the manuf.s to just say don't use it for this.
What is your background - you are not doing such detailed research for fun!
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Brian Casey at June 12. 2005
Dear lavadera, My background is simple: the roofing business since the mid-seventies and bending metal since 1982. In 1990 we began rollforming standing seam. I wear a couple of hats. I am working closely with the man (a genious inventor) that brought cor-ten to California's roofs thirty years ago. We are working together to determine the strengths and weaknesses of the thirty-plus year old cor-ten roofs and are working to improve them. So far I see no improvements that are very difficult to correct. We will soon re-introduce his proven design made with weathering steel back to the market--but I'm not here to leave a business card (yet. . . !)
We have seen a big resurgence of weathering steel use the last several years, almost exclusively in a corrugated sheet. I am not certain of the dangers of corrugated laps, but I am concerned the sidelaps do not have a capillary break (like most, if not all other cladding panels have). Concerns for capillary water movement is not to be minimized. Once I spilled a drink on the corner of a skid of 4x10 flatstock sheets in my shop to find weeks later that several layers had the liquid squeezed all the way to the opposite corner because of capillary action.
Therein lies the concern for proper installation of weathering steels--eliminating areas that will capillary or otherwise trap moisture and continue corroding if not allowed to dry promptly.
I am very much aware of the caveats US Steel has on their light gauge cor-ten steel. From what I understand, their first major failure was on a very large bank building in San Diego. I don't think they fully understood the dangers of it being in a marine environment, or the trapped moisture concerns. After all, it was a new product and had (and STILL has) remarkable protective characteristics. Clearly it has been used, and continues to be used in more and more buildings with great success.
So who knows. Perhaps US Steel is being forced to publish this bulletin (a la Philip Morris, et al.) as a result of a settlement or something.
Anyone with any info on this, please advise. We can't get the info out of US Steel, even while they enjoy their classy, 62 story mega-building clad with cor-ten completed back in 1971 (see: http://www.ussteel.com/corp/facilities/headquarters.htm) Comments criticisms, PLEASE!
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Glenn Vogel at June 18. 2005
Check out my website www.gotmetalcolorado.com. Just link to the metal house, it's completely clad in a588 weathering steel (Cor-ten). There is 55 tons of structural a588 in addition to the cladding. Lots of galvalume, glass concrete. We are ready to cover the interior walls now, so a major update of photos is upcoming. Enjoy.
I love your house GV - very much like the 6040 House.
bcasey - I'm very interested in your work on this. There is a lot of interest in the use of Corten, and US Steel is just hanging us out to dry by saying flat out don't do it. We need sensible guidelines for the use of the material.
bcasey - I wonder if you can manufacture the coils of corten intended for sidelaps with an additional treatment just at the edges of the coil that would offer protection against accelerated reactions at the lapped areas subject to capillary action. What I am thinking is what if you treated the first 3 of the coil on either edge with a coating like Rust Grip?
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Brian Casey at June 19. 2005
GVogel... beautiful house, great metal work; VERY cool stuff. I am building a house soon and need to contact you to make something for my wine cellar door. . . You are in Colorado... did you check out Reclametals cold rolled steel offerings? What's your take on this? Is Recla being Reckless?
Greg La Vadera: I am continuing study on Cor-ten/Corten and its equivalents here. I have been checking places that are in the higher altitudes and have some locations in the Sierra foothills and San Joaquin Valley still to inspect. So far, the alpine applications for this specific product indicate a very stable oxide coating (as discussed in a previous posting), but I am very interested in evaluating the Cor-ten that's been used in areas subject to wetter weather. The San Joaquin Valley is notorious for dense tule fog and prolonged high (virtually saturated) humidity conditions. There are Cor-ten roofing installations dating back to the 70's there.
You asked about coating the 3 of coil edge for a safe corrugated lap. You would have to do the top of one coil edge and the bottom of the far side of the same coil for proper effect. There is so much preparation for steel in paint lines (typically the first 80% are strictly preparation and the remaining the primer and finish coating) it would be impractical. Paint lines use huge squeegee type rollers to coat the entire coil width so there may not be a way to isolate a small 3 strip.
In my previous posting I inserted an extraneous paren on the link to US Steel's headquarter building and have corrected it here: [url href=http://www.ussteel.com/corp/facilities/headquarters.htm]US Steel Headquarters clad with Cor-ten Steel in 1971[/url] Their own web page calls it an engineering masterpiece and showcases the company's Cor-ten steel.
I will keep this thread updated as I learn more about the performance of Cor-ten as I learn them. I will also let you know when we get our ICC testing done for this tried and true Cor-ten roofing design. About that time we will be formalizing the re-introduction of the product and will have links to our site showing the materials, case study results, etc., and will put a link here if it is allowed.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Jed Ballew at June 19. 2005
Hey Corten lovers,
I just got home from a trip to Steel City and had the chance to walk past the U.S. Steel headquarters. Looked like it's holding up just fine. I'm very happy that this thread is still alive - I am learning quite a bit.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Gregory La Vardera at June 19. 2005
Posting a link here is allowed and encouraged!
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Campbell King at August 07. 2005
I hope this is still alive!
Does anyone know any links to or have design details they are willing to share for;
1. Attachment and design for using the product as a cladding on a vertical wall.
2. Design to stop capillary action - what methods in design could be used to form small gaps between surfaces that would normall be in contact.
designed the Art Gallery in Melbourne Australia mentioned earlier in this string (you can get to it via links Public Buildings - Malthouse Development 1998 ). I had a bit of walk around it the other day and the sheets are laid vertically have been formed to a simple channel (about 900mm with 150mm edging). There is a good 100mm between the ground and where the Corten starts. The joints between the sheets appear to contain a black elastomer of some form. It will be interesting to watch this beautiful beast of a building age and to see if the elastomer will keep the moisture out.
They have a lot of experience with the material so I'm sure they've worked it out.
A few years later they designed Shadowfax Winery (you can see it in the same web site but via Commercial Buildings - Shadowfax winery). Interestingly the sheets are laid horizontally this time instead of vertical (could they have realized the design problem? or was it purely asthetics). Each edge is kept about 3mm from the next sheet.
I would love to know the skeletal structure behind these buildings and how they have formed, how the product was fixed in place,etc. Particularly the winery.
Any advice or guesses on how the winery was achieved would be appreciated.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by neville wallace-wells at October 04. 2005
ive just finished my own house using galvalume as siding and then built the fences from cor-ten,we live on the coast in santa cruz ca,the cor-ten has aged well with the salt air,trying to do more projects with steel but most folks scared of it.the siding is cut using a skillsaw and wiped down well after to get off the fine grindings which will leave big rust patches.got material through san lorenzo lumber(now owned by lumbermans)here in town.my next house i will use the cor-ten as siding so i dont need to be as carefull with the product when cutting and handling.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Karen Pittman at October 05. 2005
Does anyone know the story on the UT-Austin Communications Department building cor-ten failure? Was it a case of connections failing due to capillary action, or did panels just rust right through? I'd expect the air here to be not TERRIBLY corrosive, but who knows...
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Mark Meyer at October 05. 2005
The UT issue had everything to do with galvanic action. Apparently the contractor used an attachment clip that was not to the spec, and also neglected to seperate dis-similar metals, which led to the panels rusting-thru at the connection point. I don't really think it was a problem with the claddig itself, but rather an improper method of attachment.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Jill Kruse at October 21. 2005
If i remember correctly, there was a home in an early Dwell that had an interior Corten wall. I loved the look and wondered how to install, where to get and would it age inside as well? Is there any input about using, installing and final results on interior applications? It would be appreciated!
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by darrel at October 25. 2005
I'm a little confused. It sounds like the biggest problem with the material is rust-through from water trapped behind it. But, at the same time, they say not to use it as a rain screen. My understanding is a rainscreen is siding designed specifically to allow air behind it to prevent trapped moisture. Do I have my definition wrong?
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Gregory La Vardera at October 25. 2005
I think you are missing the issue inc. A rainscreen installation would allow ventilation behind the panels which should allow the backs to dry, yes but that is not what is causing the issue. The problem was arising at the places where the corrugated sheets were lapped. The two sheets overlapped creates a zone where capillary action would take up water between the sheets and allow it to sit. Vented space behind would not alleviate this. However if you made a rainscreen installation where you did not lap the sheets and played up gaps between the sheets you could avoid this. I'm not sure if I like how this looks, at least as I picture it in my mind.
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Stefán Jónsson at November 10. 2005
I have a question about using corten for tiles. I´m studying landscape architecture in Iceland and in one of my projects I wanted to use Corten steel as tiles, outside. Now I have to give instructions on how to lay them. I´ve seen tiles made of corten in Germany and thought that was way cool.
Does anyone know anything about that
Iceland Agricultural University
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by Eugene Aw at November 18. 2005
I am 2nd year architecture student studying at Mcgill University in Montreal. I am in the midst of designing a contempory art gallery for my project and I am very keen on using corten steel as an exterior facade material. However, I have not been very successful in finding information about the detailing of the corten steel. I will deeply appreciate it anyone of you could let me know if there are any detail magazines specific to corten steel or whether there are websites that provide these information?
Re: Weathering Steel aka CortenPosted by sam martin at November 23. 2005
ah the powers of google! I have just discovered this fine forum website. I am a sole practicing architecture graduate in New Zealand, now 3yrs on the outside.
Just finished a detail set now on the the next one. I have a project hopefully involving corten, having the client convinced at present!!. I have no experience with it and very little information on detailing it bar the glossy photos, at least until a couple of hours ago. The project is behind schedule.
apart from the useful discussion above I've found the following title:
by Rautaruukki Oyj
Publisher: Helsinki : Rakennustieto, c2001.
9516826571 (Finnish ed.
thankfully this is held at my local archschool library so will be getting hold of this. anybody out there read this title?? opinions??
and more specifically
there are plenty of details on this site of how this system goes together. Also there spec seems to indicate 1.5mm corten. seems the Finnish are into their corten.
Anyway, my site is fairly coastal and experiences a misty sea spray at the worst of time. Any experiences, recomendations out there for such a situation would be cool.
As would any stock details!! i'll be putting together some drawings so i'll gladly share my experiences if it all goes ahead. Will post info on book also.