Modern Addition (ok not a full home.. just an add on)

we are in the process of designing our modern addition.  We had hired an architect - but he kept coming back with typical Miami "cottage" style stuff  - so we broke away - bought some home design software and designed it ourselves.  First we entered in the data from our survey and then built up from there.

Where the addition is going is currently one of those swim in place pools fro endless pools and a deck around it.  This pool will simply move towards the backyard 23 feet to make room for the addition.

Here is a photo of our initial design:

Looks Great!

Thanks.  We are a little unclear on the ongoing steps though.  We've spoken to a contractor who says we still need an architect and an engineer.  The architect to draw up the plans and the engineer to make sure it withstands hurricane and meets construction code.  I don't mind using an Architect - but wish I could find one that does modern - and does additions.... In Miami I've found lots of Modern Architects - but they do big big buildings and charge big big prices.

I've also been told that Miami construction will be about 200 a sq. foot - which reallyt hen begs the question - is it better to build this - or go out and buy a summer condo somewhere?  The price would be the same.

Does anyone have an idea of what plans and engineering plans for a 433 sq. foot addition should cost?  I did the above based on the survey of the house - and the pool plans were approved in 96 - though we are moving it back 20feet.  Its just an enclosure around a stainless steel endless pool). 

I've gotten a bid that amost made me choke -  the cost for the plumbing, electrical, and engineering plan came out to almost 20 a sq. foot.  Seemed high  to me since I already have a survey, the pool enclosure engeering plans - .. but how do people generally pay for plans?  Flat fee?  Hourly rate?  How does this work?

In northern New England where I practice, 10-15% of the construction cost is an approximate fee range. That puts your $20./sf at the lower edge of that range, assuming a $200./sf. construction price and 433 sf. You may be able to find someone to work on an hourly or a flat fee based on some number of hours. I don't know what the existing house looks like, or your solar orientation, but I complement you on the quality of the addition you've designed. Structurally, I do not believe you've left enough room in your roof cavity for the framing, insulation and lighting you'll need. Placing the load bearing columns in water is liable to give an engineer heartburn as well, but might be a fun challenge. It does look as though you have a wall available to provide for shear and the window wall could be pretty straight forward. Minimalist design requires careful detailing to make it look right - no slapping on a bit of trim to cover mistakes. An architect would have his work cut out for him or her. If I were down there I would love to work with you, I can't believe you are unable to find someone willing to take this on.

both disciplines usually charges a flat fee based on industry standard using % total construction cost:

architects charges 10-15% (new); 15-20% (remodel).

engineers usually take up 2% of the architects fee

in SF bay area, the construction cost is about $350-500/SF.  based on your rendering, it'll most likely be on the higher range due to all the structural elements and architectural detailing (Emerson is dead on about his comments).

something like this you have no choice but to use an architect and a damn clever engineer.  stainless pool enclosure - modern but not quite sustainable??!!

Previously sea.design wrote:

both disciplines usually charges a flat fee based on industry standard using % total construction cost:

architects charges 10-15% (new); 15-20% (remodel).

engineers usually take up 2% of the architects fee

in SF bay area, the construction cost is about $350-500/SF.  based on your rendering, it'll most likely be on the higher range due to all the structural elements and architectural detailing (Emerson is dead on about his comments).

something like this you have no choice but to use an architect and a damn clever engineer.  stainless pool enclosure - modern but not quite sustainable??!!

 

The pool exists - its an endless pool - that company will move it - I only need the contractor to erect a square slab.  The building is 1 wall, 1 interior wall, and 1 roof with the glass windows handled by local firms - PGT.  Wow - contractors are smoking crack in SF if they are getting 350-500.  Thank god I don't live there.  It always amazing me how much more contractors get by region when material costs don't really fluctuate that much.  Building costs in texas are subtantially lower than Miami which are lower than SF. 

 

Here's the good news - its a recession - contractors will be looking for work so they seem more willing to negotiate right now.  I'm fine with a builder making 20% on his work - but at $500 a square foot your really talking making more like 100% on the labour and effort.  Lets face it  - 1 concrete truck costs 1,000 in Miami.  I may need 5-10.  That leaves framing it up and very few internal finishes.  Plumbing and electrical are not subtantial - one drain and 2 water lines.  Electric is already near the location due to current pool location - and I've priced moving the pool at 5k (it dissambles and reassembles).

 

Hard part is going to be getting equipment in - and that is where I think the cost will come from as well as whether or not the site requires pilings - a miami code thing.  But seriously - considering the total lack of finishes, the total lack of complex requirements - I can't see this costing more than 100k.  The windows price out at 20k - add the pool with pad - 10k, we are at 30.  Now add in the 1 wall and roof and 1 interior support column - you aren't that high yet.

 

We lost the moat... was too complicated anyway and not enough room to support it.  I'lll let folks know as I progress.  But - to build a single room of 600 sq. feet and pay 300,000 (at 500 dollars a sq. foot) would be a joke.  I can buy a full 3 bedroom 2 bath home in Miami or fort Lauderdale right now for less than that... so it just depends on how hungry the contractors are... cause if they don't want the job - I can always just buy a vacation home for less.

 

Architect fees are 10-15% is true - but they aren't doing any design work here - I've got the plans in cad... I believe in SoFla an engineer can do those plans for the code - in fact I don't think architects add a lot of value in the states since they tend to be more design focused and rely on engineers for structural - whereas when I studied in Europe (architecture) we had to do both. 

 

I also have an Architect (former college mate) who is doing the plans - so I'll only need an engineer to take those and do the structural and certify so hopefully that will save money as well.

 

300k for 600 sq. feet - lol.  And people wonder why we're in a credit crisis... lol.

Thomas, We are finishing up builing an "affordable" modern house in Dallas and so I have some experience with this. You need to get a spread sheet going and start thinking up row for every element of the project. If you already have a CAD file for the design (that is as detailed as necessary to allow no room for builder "interpretation"), then you should be able to find an architect to review and stamp the plans pretty reasonably. In Dallas, you do not need an architect stamp for stuff like this. But you do need an engineer to review everything, and there is a minimum cost for doing a project. Shop around for a structural engineer (builders often work with them), but I bet that will cost you at least $1500.

In Dallas, plumbing, HVAC, and electrical contractors can all design their layouts and systems to work and met code. Depending on where the sun hits, that little glass box is going to get hot. Because building costs per SF drop with size, you will have a high SF cost for all trades. There may not be a lot of openings, but the electrician still has to get power out to this thing. There may not be a lot of fixtures, but getting water and sewer out there is a lot. It may not be a lot of SF to condition, but there still has to be a entire system out there for this building.

So as I see it:

Design and engineering: 3000-5000

Permits: 3000? Any idea what this is in Miami?

Foundation: 10,000 (slab on grade?)

Windows: 20,000 (does this include install? If not, add 5000)

Electrical: 6000 (but assumes you will need to upgrade your existing service and panel)

Plumbing and HVAC: 6000

Framing: 5,000

Roof: 4,000

gwb: 3,000

Exterior: 5000 (stucco?)

Finish floor: 2500 (seal the slab) and could go much higher

One full bath and lighting fixtures: 4000

Interior paint: 4000 (nice paint job by real painter -- new trim is a pain)

Exterior hardscape and landscape (move pool): 12,000

Finish carpentry: 2000-6000 depending on details and how good you want it to look.

Trash disposal and clean up: 2000

Builder profit: 20,000

WIth this, we are at about $120k, or $200/SF.

Now these are rough prices (not knowing level of detail and local construction cost, so you might be able to amend all this quite a bit. If I were you, I'd start a spreadsheet with these numbers, show the plans to a few builders and see what they say about each item. That will allow you to see where you are without too much trouble. I think you could save a lot if you moved away from Mies and went more www.krdb.com . The devil, as well as God, is in the details.