We used a recycled rubber sheet material in our bathroom called ecosurfaces. You can find information at: http://www.ecosurfaces.com Pretty simple glue-down installation, no offgassing, recycled material, resilient and durable. We installed the material 5 years ago and never been a bit of a problem, very little maintenance, and easy to clean. Cheap, too, but I cannot remember the exact prices. Significantly less than tile, more on par with the cost of VCT. I remember we wanted to use it in the kitchen, but the mfr does not recommend use where hot grease could be spilled. No problems with wet room installation, though. One bonus: it's rubber, so it's very non-slip. Good luck.

I am guessing there is going to be a plywood subfloor. Ideally, if you glue anything down, you should really put down an underlayment first. I think 1/4" plywood is a typical choice. This is so that you can replace the floor at a later date without damaging your subfloor. This was the issue that drove Forbo from $4.75/sqft installed to $6. With bamboo at $5.50/sqft installed, the linoleum didn't look as attractive. So I guess bamboo is not recommended for radiant heat b/c of delamination issues?

We have now settled on the floating cork planks. While cork is an excellent insulator, I wouldn't write it off yet.

Have you considered MDF? You would need to cut each piece to fit and then give each piece 2 coats of poly all around (all six sides) before gluing them down. Leave a 1/8" space between them and fill with a black, marine-type calk. Then I would put another coat of polyurethane over it all. It probably won't last forever, but it will give you time to save up for the floor you really want.

In fact, the following is a posting from the current owner of a Miller-Hull house in Washington. I had asked about how their floor was attached and if they wished they had done anything differently.

"the 4x4 panels (they're formaldehyde-free MDF) are attached to a plywood subfloor with stainless steel screws, then a swedish finish was applied over the completed surface. the screwheads are counter-sunk, and just the face of the head is visible. it was a challenge, i'm told, to make sure the screws were inline, and they form a nice industrial-aesthetic pattern over the surface of the floor. re: how we like it now - it has a few issues that we're looking to correct. would definitely urge those thinking about installing MDF to consider the following: 1. apply a durable finish (if the finish is worn or gouged, and water gets to the MDF, it swells, and just never looks the same) 2. replace panels when they need it, rather than putting off the repair (we're now in the position of having to replace the entire floor, when we believe that with proper care, it might have lasted much longer) 3. edge-finish the panels (with your surface finish of choice, like poly, or oil-based finish) before you put them down (water has a way of finding its way into the seams between the panels) 4. keep a record of what you put on the floor (this would make it easier to match the color and quality of the finish material) 5. recognize that MDF is neither engineered nor sold (typically) as a flooring material, and it'll likely be a less-long-lasting surface than a 25-year linoleum. it's fantastic for temporary flooring, while you're deciding upon (or saving for) the long-term, and it's great for a floor you can live with a little "wear" (if you like big dogs, like us...)"

We have the Ecosurfaces in our office too and it is a really great floor. Not sure about compatibility with radiant heat. Also remember the black colors are much cheaper in this material - more tire content, less cost. You can feel really good about using this stuff when you consider the tire grind ups.

Don't shy away from doing VCT either. They have come out with some great colors in this material because of pressure from other funky flooring materials. Nothing costs less, and its easy to put down and take care of. You can upgrade in the future if you want.

If you get the right kind of bamboo (e.g., EcoTimber), you can float it over radiant heat. But I don't think you'll hit your price point.

If you go with MDF, I would suggest Medex, which is an exterior grade MDF from Sierra Pine. I haven't tried it myself, but it shouldn't exhibit the swelling problems that ordinary MDF suffers from. It's formaldehyde-free, too.

-Steve

You could do metal but attatch with countersunk screws (like Rous described for the MDF) instead of glued down.

Also, I agree with Greg about the VCT. I know vinyl is not a very eco-friendly product, but the combination of VERY inexpensive (you could probably do for~$1.00sqft or less), great colors and fast, easy DIY installation make me a big fan.

Or what about plain finish grade 1/4" plywood with a couple of coats of sealer and/or stain?

My experience with slate tile (the cheap kind), is that it chips easily. I also dislike that the surface is so irregular...looks cool but a major pain to keep clean and a tripping hazzard. This also makes grouting a huge pain and very time consuming.

There was a renovation detailed in Dwell several months back done by a couple of new architects. They redid the roof with corrugated corten steel which they extended down the sides of the house. The house was re-featured recently as the owners were putting a cubical addition on the back of the house. Anyway, they mentioned that the cork floor cost them $2 per sqft. Looking at the floor, it sure as heck looks like 2'x3' sheets of cork underlayment which you can find online for about $1.10/sqft. It is probably not durable enough to last forever, but with 3-4 coats of polyurethane, I bet it would last for several years. While you have the problem of glueing something to the sub-floor, at least you wouldn't have to pull it up to put something else down over it; after all, it is an underlayment!

Great ideas. Thanks so much for the input; I am so appreciative. I'll look further at the eco-surfaces; David and I both liked it. It looks really comfortable and durable. I think I'll contact the manufacturer for more assistance regarding its suitablility for in-floor heating.

Jeff, we love the cork too! I wish was better for our situation. We're not sure about the MDF idea, since we don't think it will be so durable.

I'm also interested in looking into investigating if the steel floors could work with the radiant heat.

Thanks again for the good leads. These are all ideas I wouldn't have thought of on my own.

Sara

Anyone out there with dogs and rubber floors notice that dog hair is harder to clean?

Just wondering...

Sara

Of course, he's short hair and doesn't really shed that much. I have to say that out of all of the money-saving decisions we were forced to make 5 years ago with our house, going with the rubber floor in the bath is probably the best one. I would not hesitate to use it again or recommend it to anyone (especially DIY-ers). FYI: The mfr is geared towards contract and commercial sales and so product reps are not necessarily accustomed to residential customers. This may prove a bit of difficulty in the beginning of the process as it did for us. At first they didn't want to talk to us, until I told the rep that I was an architect and it was my own house, and I wanted to test the product out for future projects. At that point, she was happy to do some legwork for me and track down good prices. Since most installations are huge commercial projects, depending on the size of your room, it may be possible to complete your project with end-of-roll scraps and offcuts. 5 years ago, their stock database was able to be searched for scraps and partial rolls to try to find the quantity we needed at a well reduced price. Didn't end up working out for us, but it's definitely something to ask about. The other thing to keep in mind is that you DO want to use their adhesive. I've layed lots of VCT and the Ecosurfaces adhesive, while MUCH more expensive than VCT adhesive, is also much thicker and stronger. (Please don't get it on your skin, it will take WEEKS (!) to come off) I pity the fool that has to demo out our rubber installation. Thankfully we put it down over 1/2" plywood over the subfloor, so the 1/2" underlayment can be pulled up. Good luck.

Sara - the ecosurfaces gets a sealer finish on it, and hair does not stick to it the way it would to raw rubber.

Yes, ecosurfaces can be used over radiant heat. However, their product starts at $4.20 sf according to the residential sales rep. He laughed when I told him what my budget was!

Oh well, I'll keep looking.

I just found a distributor who can give me a volume discount that meets our budget for Armstrong's linoleum flooring.

I think this will work best for us. The rubber flooring looked really good but I think I won't be able to find it at our price point.

Sara

are we talking about those solid surface squares that look like old school flooring? if so I love that stuff! it's not expensive and very easy for the diy'er.

I've used the black and gray for a checker board pattern and my mom used the off white and mint for her kitchen. she took her time and a border around the walls and island then did checkerboard on the diagonal in the center sections. took some time but her labor was free for her.

unfortunately for her that home was in shreveport louisiana. when it was time to sell a contractor bought the home and ripped out the concrete counter tops I'd made, applied sheet material over that kitchen flooring and wall to wall carpet over the HW floors that had an ebony stain on them. the home was just TOO modern for s'port. so the contractor was able to fix and flip.

paul

$2.99 is the best price/sqft I have found (Forbo, 2.5mm

I know they make a 2mm version but I have not gotten a price on that). But this price does not include adhesive or intall. Have you found a better price? As I have looked into it, I found lino is not very DIY friendly. Are you going to give it a shot?

Things always cost more here in so cal. I found armstrong's product for $3 sf. I am not sure David wants this type of flooring. If it were up to him we'd have laminate!

We're going to perform a mini science experiment with our cork samples to see if we can get an idea of how much heat it would transmit.

Sara

From what I have seen, Armstrong is a bit more expensive than Forbo. And Forbo has about six times as many colors. I was ready to use it in the entire house, until I found bamboo was cheaper. I got an installed price (with 1/4" underlayment) of $6/sqft. $4.65 without the underlayment. But the subfloor has to be smooth as any grain of sand will telegraph through. Pre-sanding the floor is probably a good idea.

I would much rather use Marmoleum since they have so many great color choices.

I couldn't get any price on the Marmoleum and a few flooring vendors told me that Marmoleum runs higher.

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into it.

Sara

Until they stopped carrying linoleum, ifloor had both Marmoleum and Armstrong. I think they had them at the same price and it was higher than our local store (but I cannot remember what it was exactly). Our local Forbo dealer (specializes in environmentally friendly products) has the 2.5mm Marmoleum at $2.99/sqft for sheet and $3.99 for 13x13 tiles. Both Forbo and Armstrong come in different thicknesses. I have been told by a master installer that the 2mm stuff is cheaper but just as good. I have looked but not been able to find prices on line. Since we are going to have the stuff professionally installed, I'll let them worry about that.

We are only going to use it in bathrooms where they are going to run it up the walls 4" (capped with a aluminum extrusion) to form the baseboard. With no seam where the floor meets the wall, cleaning should be easy. Behind the sink, we are having them mount it on the wall from 4" -42" off the floor to form a backsplash. It is cheaper than tile. And if we can do it cheaply, we may even use it for countertops.

Forbo had a line called Elementary which was thinner and I think came only in tiles. They were pitching it as a vct alternative. I thought that was the lowest cost version of their stuff. In any case you can always opt for the thinner stock - you will never wear through it in a house.

I think you guys were right. I found a linoleum dealer in Hollywood who sells 2 mm Marmoleum for $2 sf. David likes Marmoleum after he saw their website.

Sara

Was the $2 for sheets or tiles?

I just saw the part about laminate. I would so much rather have linoleum. It is anti-static, anti-microbal, completely bio-digradeable. Mop on an acrylic top-coat and it is practically indestructible. One problem with laminate is that if it gets damaged at all or if the seams part a bit and water gets to the sub-structure (mdf?), it will swell up and be ruined.

Just about every floor covering association has recommendations on using radiant heating.

Here's a few links:

Bamboo http://www.greenwoodflooring.com/radiantheat.htm http://www.teragren.com/tera_flooring/adhesive.asp

Carpet http://www.carpet-rug.org/technical_bulletins/99_Carpet_and_Heated_Floors.pdf

http://www.carpet-rug.com/drill_down_2.cfm?page=6&sub=9

http://carpetbuyershandbook.com/

Underlayment

http://www.foamex.com/carpet/index.php http://www.sponge-cushion.com/radiant.htm

General

http://www.wfca.org/flooringguide/guide.asp?tp=1&p=1

Wood Floors

http://www.wfca.org/flooringguide/guide.asp?tp=3&pg=3 http://www.awc.org/index.html http://www.hardwood.org/ http://www.launstein.com/radiant-heat/test-results.html http://www.woodfloorsonline.com/directory.html http://www.cwc.ca/design/

For those who have concerns about radiant and hardwood you can download our free slide show by Clicking here

RBean http://www.healthyheating.com