With my Greenbelt 2 project, we have been looking into various panelized building systems for the second floor structure- SIPs, panelized stud walls, etc., and we basically came to the same conclusion- on-site stick framing! It seems that these panel manufacturers are starting to believe their own hype and charging accordingly. Not only are SIPs more expensive, but it also results in much less design flexibility and room for error. I think it's one thing if you are building multiple copies of the same house, where the drawing, measuring and engineering only need to be done once. But for a single custom home, the cost is just too prohibitive.

I used SIPS for my walls in a rough framing install 5 months ago. The installed wall price was $8.25/sqft. I had the exact same scenario play out as well - first bid was 36k and the last bid was 61k - for the same plans!!!!

From my experience, SIPS are WAY TO EXPENSIVE. If I were to do my project again, SIPS would get the boot.

bode well this does not for me

Discouraged are you. Get many bids Zach must. Easy to assemble are SIPs; good for the DIYer.

i's do thunk them SIP things sure is good for dem DIY people, and i's sure one of dem. ain't many subs workin on my house (except the slab).

beware of the dark side

there are lots of sips co out there. I would hope if you keep working at them You'll find a vendor your comfortable w/ paying their $.

from what I know (aint much). sips pay off in the long run they do. the strength, energy efficiency and speed of assembly will pay off in the long run.

you could always go straw bale!

paul

Unfortunatly, banks do not say "Oh, SIPs! Wow, since you will be saving $100 on your energy costs, we will let your mortgage payment be $80 more per month to pay for the added expense of the SIPs." Why not? I do not know, but perhaps it has something to do with SIP construction not adding much to resale value (which is all banks care about).

true, the bank could care less a/b anything more than your credit rating, cost per sq ft and your interest rate.

so how much less do you think stick framing will be? despite what the bank thinks do YOU see a benefit of sips?

sorry, but I've been following all these proects and the whole sips gig and ... I'm of the opinion that the bank is not the best party to decide where and how I acquire debt towards housing.

before my brain wrangles this issue... just how much cheaper do you think it would be to go 2x4 and what r value would achieved and how long would the shell require for frame up?

I'm not a very patient person. I get concerned when I see my peers becoming frustrated and varying from the set path.

from my experience, you can collect bids from 10 differnet contractors and get WIDELY varying bids. usually you get 10 bids and pick the guy in the middle.

but once I was on a strict $ and time budget. I'd gutted my whole house and needed to occupy within 30 days. I needed all new plumbing and the old galvanized removed. I got bids from close to $10k from one guy who also gave me tons of attitude. I really did not care to see him again ever.

in the end I found some guys that were friendly and did the job in 2 days for $1500! 10k guy had wanted 4 weeks.

I know you guys don't need some drunk hairy hippie like me to be your cheerleader. but there are times you need to take some matters of $ away from the bank. how long do you plan to live in this house?

stepping off my soap box,

p

I still have not seen the stick framing numbers, but from what I have learned, I wouldn't be surprised if conventional framing (with 2x6s) wouldn't be 30%-50% cheaper. We did get three bids early on and they were within $1000 of each other. Thermocore was the cheapest and those are the guys we have continued to talk to. I probably need to talk to the others again to see where they would be with all the structure added.

As for saying what the heck and going with SIPs anyway, it isn't as easy as that. 1) Say the SIP built house is $24,000 more than conventional framing but I'll save $100 per month on energy consumption. Well, if I can put that $24,000 in the bank and earn 6%, I can earn $120 per month. I am not sure what the numbers are for all this, but as the SIP price keeps rising, the overall cost effectiveness falls. 2) The bids for the house are coming in high. Unless we can cut costs substantially, we won't be able to build the house at all. I'd rather live in a conventionally-framed modern house I helped design than abandon the project and buy a McMansion. 3) I do not have an infinite amount of time to contact 10 framers, 10 electricians, 10 plumbers, 10 roofers, 10 steel guys, 10 foundation companies, etc. Plus, in the State of Texas I NEED to hire a GC, so they are the ones who put the subs together, not me. On this house, I do have builders who are willing to let me get involved. I am pretty much handling the SIPs, the windows, and a few other things. And I have done a decent job of looking for steel shops that do not charge an arm and a leg. Finally, I have spent countless hours spec-ing light fixtures, faucets, flooring, cabinets, exhaust fans, etc. I am getting about 5 hours a sleep per night and there is not much more I can do.

Hey, who let this drunk hairy hippie in here? This is a MODERN bulletin board, I thought we only allowed fellows in pin-striped suits and fedoras, or at the very least khaki wearing, rolled sleeve dandies. What gives?

;)

Here is a good and heated discussion on the cost of SIPS vs Sticks. Please note that many people in this discussion board are affiliated with SIPS manufacturing and sales companies. Given that, the general consensus still seems to be that SIPS are definately more expensive than SIPS, at best. From my experience, I had several quotes to rough fram my house:

Sticks = 95-110k Sips = 130-160k (incl. interior framing)

http://www.sipweb.com/forum/topic.asp? TOPIC_ID=821&FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=Cost+comparisons+%3A+SIP+vs%2E+stick%2Dbuilt&Forum_Title=SIP+Talk

Unless you are in a freezing cold climate, then energy savings will never pay off. Youll trade quick assembly time on site for a TON of pre build drawing development trying to get the SIP drawings down to 1/4" and then making sure the mechanicals can get to where they need to go.

what about Aerated Concrete Block? the propoganda claims it costs almost the same as wood framing; "1-5% more".

and could this block be used in conjunction w/ sips? maybe there is a way to reduce the amount of sips? a pipe dream? maybe... but 2 out 4 sips walls aint bad and no 2x4 sticks too boot.

just trying to help,

paul

I have been looking at SIPs for ~10 years now... and this year I will finally build.

I'm trying to design and MAKE all drawings myself - shop & production SIP drawings... and the structural. My plan has alwyas been to TRY to save the premium cost by way of doing MOST of the SIP producer/installer's work for them. There IS a lot of work involved that people don't consider. Try modeling a house and making REAL plans from it... this is SOME work!

Anyways I just now finished the shop & production drawings and plan on shopping them out to my local SIP producers - R-Control (likely $$$), Insulspan, Porter SIP, and whoever else close to MI I can find who's also an erector of SIP "shells".

If you think your quote is $$$, you should see mine. I'm in Michigan (Detroit metro) where housing cost thinks it's San Jose, CA!!! I got ~$85k+ for a ~3500SF, but my place has more than four exterior walls.

At 3800SF... a home of that size in my neck of the woods is EASILY $350-400k. And you complain that the shell is $30k???? Heck... some people who will go all out on high end appliances will cough up ~$20k alone!

I guess to me it seems CHEAP when you consider a house is MAINLY the shell. Count your blessing.

When I said we had 3885 sq. ft., I didn't mean floor space, but exterior wall space. The house is 2800 sq. ft. Also, the atrium is not included since it will be mostly glass. Add $8500 for the steel framing for the atrium and we have $48,000 for the framing (including crane rental) and this does not include the roof structure. Add $12,000 for the roof and we have $60,000. And this does not include any windows, doors, exterior finishes, roofing or the foundation. The shell of a house is a lot more than its exterior framing.

For me, a $12,000 increase in the price of the SIP package is significant. I am glad you have the resources to be unaffected by a 50% increase in the cost of the exterior of your house. However, since other's at LiveModern are planning on using SIPs to build affordable modern houses, I thought these last minute changes in price would be of interest to others.

If conventional framing were $34,000 and SIPs were $40,000 (including crane rental, which can be $1000-$1200 per day) then SIPs would still be a good deal. However, if conventional framing comes in at $22,000, then an extra $18,000 for SIPs is not nearly as good a deal no matter how small a portion of the total budget it is. You know, toilets are important too, but that doesn't mean I am going to spend $600 on one when a good $240 alternative is available.

what's happening now? didn't see anything posted recently.