The Corbusian colour schemes might be very nice. They used to have a Le Corbusier paint chip set at the local bookstore. For some odd reason I never bought it, but always was amazed at how similar the colours were to colours I've used inside houses I've lived in. That Corbu had good taste in colour. The nice thing was that every colour was a sort of slightly greyed out version of its former self. I especially was attracted to the dark blue he liked to use. I think that and a nice light-neutral grey could work wonders.

I like the last color combo best.

I always thought LeCorbusier's buildings were too cold, but then I finally saw some color photos. Black and white images do not serve his buildings well. Many of his buildings use some color on the outside (e.g. Unite de Habitation) and they are all full of color on the inside (Bauhaus pink, eggplant, light blue, dark blue, dark green, red, terracotta). Not only that, he used lots of wood (mahogony?) panelling, bright tile on walls and warm tile on floors (all very irregular and hand-made looking). Most amazing, when I finally saw a color photo of the santuary of Chapel of Notre-Dame-du-Haut, I was blown away. In black and white, it is hauntingly beautiful but austere. In color, you see that all those little windows are either red, blue, yellow or green.

As if I have not digressed enough, I think his buildings work much better if they are set in a context of non-modern buildings or set in nature. He was able to put together a few neighborhoods of his buildings and the overall composition of dozens of cement boxes has kind of a depressing Soviet look to it

despite the welcoming interiors.

Jeff, i like the third one, but doing an actual orange (not terra-cotta) would be neat, too (see massiearchitecture.com)

1. s. - jeff, i have been on the sipweb forums as "so..." (just so you aren't freaked out

Ah, so you're the little enforcer. Well, I read every old posting on SIPs and stucco and my overall read is that no one really has a clue (most of the threads digressed into a discussion of EIFS). Some say Tyvek stucco wrap, some say two layers of felt, some say one layer of heavy duty felt, a few even say use nothing so that the OSB can easily dry out after a rain. Lots of folks like EIFS, which we cannot use per zoning restriction. Some asked about painting the OSB with somethig like Thompson's Water Seal, but no one responded to that. One thing I did learn is that you gotta keep water away from the SIPs. If they start to rot, your whole structure is compromized. With traditional stucco, lots of water will get behind the stucco as the plaster is open cell. The key is drainage and making sure water cannot get behind the vapor barrier. The newer two-coat stucco system is better with water because the color coat is waterproof unless it cracks. And this choice affects the desireability of different colors.

I'll play with an orange color scheme to see how it looks. I have not visited the MassieArchitecture site lately, but I'll check it out.

yeah, SIPWEB isn't the most helpful site in the world. most of the discussions digress into a total mess eventually (or no one answers the real questions). -at least that's what i see in my brief ventures- i've tried to get a couple of things answered, but no specific things like this.

I really like the "House for a Photographer," Sort of a Farnsworth house for the year 2000. However, the following quote in the description had me wondering.

"When entering the threshold of the building, one has an immediate view of two similar glazed openings: one the front door, the second the shower door. This "confusion" between public and private reenforces an idea of suburban criticism."

Massie may be a genius, but wouldn't a genius know better than to say something like this without explaining what the heck he is talking about? It comes across as Achitect-babble. But I did get a good laugh out of it.

That's not confusing at all - if you want to carry the flag for suburban criticism in your neighborhood then get your shower door directly across from the front door.

(I know there's got to be some serious thinking going on there but I could not resist making fun)

My favorite thing I've gleaned from Massie (I thought of it on my own, but ran across it on his site, though I'm not sure anyone has actually DONE it yet) is the idea of putting up your SIP box and then having one of those truck bed-liner companies come in and spray the entire thing with bed-liner. The stuff comes in amazing colours, and is completely bulletproof (although probably not the nicest of environmental applications, especially with a spray rig application)

It would seem to obviate the entire condensation behind the finish surface issue we are talking about, as the SIP would have a completely waterproof coating applied directly to it. This sort of thing would warrant a well designed HVAC system with an air-exchange unit, since it ould be VERY tight construction. But just think, you'd just have to mask off the windows and the bed-liner would take care of any flashing that would be required.

Mark

http://spraysiding.com/

haven't you seen the spray-on siding stuff? they sell it here, i know that. it seems like there is even a company that is associated with the actual "rhino" truckbed liner company.

"... Massie ... ran across it on his site..."

where exactly? couldn't find it.

"... spray the entire thing with bed-liner. The stuff comes in amazing colours and is completely bulletproof (although probably not the nicest of environmental applications, especially with a spray rig application)"

got a link?

"It would seem to obviate the entire condensation behind the finish surface issue"

big concern in pnw/bc, but the house would no longer breathe, right? so "This sort of thing would warrant a well designed HVAC system with an air-exchange unit, since it would be VERY tight construction." this is absolutely essential here as we must have means of drying the structure inside from moisture generated by humans and their toys and activities (dishwashers, soup making, laundry, etc).

"But just think, you'd just have to mask off the windows and the bed-liner would take care of any flashing that would be required."

this is very interesting since i find flashing sometimes interferes with the visual finish. it would save the cost of that labour too (flashing openings) which could then be transfered to purchasing the HVAC system.

here is the Massie link:

http://www.massiearchitecture.com/main.html

http://www.rhinoshield.net/ http://www.neverpaintagain.biz/

thanks eez.

its hard to judge these against real materials because they are so graphic. But looking at them as a color study I would take the light grey towards the warm side in the third. Not just a warm grey, but towards an warm slightly off white - I think picking up a little yellow in that color against the complementary purplish blue would make both colors more vibrant.

To me, those schemes exude very different styles and I'd want to consider what you have planned for the interior of the home in terms of decor and the feel that you want the space to have inside. IMO, these things need to be congruent for a home to really feel good, and I love it when you get visual clues outside that tie to the inside so the home becomes an experience. The first one is much more serious, and suggests darker wood, cozy furnishings/rooms, softer lighting, richness, etc., while the middle two suggest arty playfullness, bright decor. I like the first and the last ones best, but the feeling that they are going to put forth is drastically different...they feel like totally different houses even though the structure is the same. I'd also consider the exterior colors of the surrounding homes. As much as I'd be OK with being the orange duck in a gray pond, history shows us that providing some kind of context is what makes the odd duck a knockout instead of just the weird odd duck. Sometimes it's helpful to look at the detail items that attract you first since they often dictate a style or color range you may instinctively gravitate toward without being aware of it. If there's something as simple as door hardware, plants or whatever that you really want to use (or are required to use) start with that and design outward.

I share your thoughts that the inerior and exterior should match. I had this same discussion with Mark (eamesdaedelus) a few months ago. Given the huge upcharge we are facing for clear anodized windows, we are probably going to have to go with painted aluminum windows (white or the ubiquitous bronze). We have been leaning toward the bronze (looks less vinyl-y) and I have been trying to figure out interior finishes (e.g. floor color (probably linoleum), wall colors, etc.) to match bronze windows. Given the atrium will be all glass and a major focus of the house, this is not a trivial matter. The obvious choices, dark goldeny browns, and a Marmoleum color called Terracotta all fit in with an exterior in the dark terracotta and chocolate brown you see in my first image. I think this scheme would provide the same warn and cozy emotional feelings as a Tuscan villa. It is all perfect if our taste in furniture run toward the De La Espada end of the modern spectrum. But, right now, our furniture includes a Cassina Reef sofa in a cool grey, a womb chair in indigo and an Eames lounge chair. Also, rooms in our current house are painted the following colors: peach, apple green, bright yellow, grey, etc. Our aesthetic definitely runs towards the bright, cheerful, crisp modern. Right now, the plan is to clad the walls on the first floor in 1/4" plywood (birch or maple), so we are staying away from a very warm and cozy feel. Of late, I have been leanig towards one of the marmoleum blues to go with the wood walls. I have always had this feeing that blue and chocolate brown (well, ok, bronze isn't exactly chocolate brown) look great together. Thanks for the comments and I look forward to any response you have.

"Our aesthetic definitely runs towards the bright, cheerful, crisp modern. Right now, the plan is to clad the walls on the first floor in 1/4" plywood (birch or maple), so we are staying away from a very warm and cozy feel. Of late, I have been leaning towards one of the marmoleum blues to go with the wood walls. I have always had this feeing that blue and chocolate brown (well, ok, bronze isn't exactly chocolate brown) look great together."

i think this is a real good mix. reminds me of brown fields before they get seeded in spring, against blue sky. i;d see something crisp like that for the exterior that might leave you enough flexibility for the interiors: stark white (chalk, like greek houses) and dark chocolaty brown (wenge or ipe tint, see mm's surfHOUSE rendering). so you could use white frames for the white parts and bronze frames for the choco parts? or bronze frames throughout and you've got a mondrian.

I am afraid of different color window in different parts of the house for fear of the "trying too hard" appearence. But I like the color scheme. I'll mock it up and post it tonight.

the only reason i suggested that was to make them disappear - white frames in white block, dark frames in dark block. but consistency is important too. i'll check your post tomorrow - i really like that color palette on mark's surfHOUSE. and i'll probably deal with the same issue when we reclad - i expect the renovated volumes or our house will be slightly similar to yours, though the fenestration will differ.

Although I'm not sure I like the two different color windows option, I had considered it (great minds..., right). I think that option is wierder from the inside than the outside.

Anyway, the white and chocolate brown is now part of the original posting. Do you still like it.

i like it. it's clean, and as eez says, yummy! see my comment on a "drier" brown.

i would agree with you that two frame colors would look totally weird on the inside. i'd tend to opt for continuity and probably choose bronze all over. it just too damned bad that you can't use alu frames throughout, hey?

I think I may have been unclear somewhere. We will be using aluminum windows throughout, just not anodized ones. The painted ones come in three colors, white, sandstone and bronze and, yeah, I would like to use the same color throughout.

i meant anidized, sorry. could you find them in overstocks from another project? they could be cheaper somewhat that way.

Since many of the windows are strange sizes (some custom), I doubt it. I'll try to get the elevations posted.

My belief is that you can make anything work. As I'm sure you know, every project has elements that must be designed around (like your window delimma, and man do I hear you on that one..)and I really think it's those things that have the potential to make it great if you can view them as positive. The suprise and unexpected (or the happy accidents) in design are what sets one apart from that boring, overly designed, overly controlled look. Blue is a great color, exciting or elegant depending on the shade, and it works with either of your schemes. A blue floor with #1 would be awesome if you give us a corresponding blue outside. I'm always careful about extremes with elements of permanence(like dark wood) because IMO, it has serious avocado green potential, not the timelessness of really great design and you're not likely to go ripping out a whole house full of trim, cabinetry, etc. That said, I'm thinking about doing blue/chocolate in my master bath but with the same reservations, plus I find it's not real flexible when you feel like changing the mood of a room (maybe you'll never do that, but I'm like ADD girl when it comes to interiors). Don't get too stuck in an earth tones or box (or whatever). If you acknowledge first the things that you really love, you can play with shades and hues until you find a way to tie it all together. What about painting a vinyl window? Our architect tells me I can do this but I'll believe it when I do it and it works and looks good. My bigger issue is actually with the window hardware. UGLY, in both design and color and no conceivable way around it.

Vinyl window hardware is tough. I have been told that you cannot use steel hardware because it is just too hard and will eventually tear apart the vinyl it is attached to. We have been told we can have vinly windows painted any color we want, but I am still expecting us to be able to affort aluminum.

I have also been told that with the right preparation, we can paint the exterior of the aluminum windows. For right now, I am looking to avoid doing any more of the work myself.

that brown and white one looks tasty, like cake. can you cut me a slice?

maybe g-dog (out of the goodness of his heart and his overwhelming enthusiasm for any creative architectural project, real or hypothetical) or Mark could do a quick sketchup of this shell and replace your Excel sheets with an actual rendering (or i could do this tonite, but it would take me longer). Do you have any programs to do this with, Jeff?

I have been doing these in MSWord, and that is about as sophisticated as it gets. To be honest, my wife is liking the buff and dark blue version that Greg, oops, I mean g-dog suggested. Here in Dallas, we do have to avoid the preception that we are producing a shrine to the Cowboys (or maybe it could be a feature at resale time). Therefore, a silvery grey and blue is definitely out. But I think a orange-y buff and dark blue would work.

the version I suggested to Jeff was accompanied by a tinted copy of his drawing that was a bit lighter in value and more saturated in color - for the heck of it I posted it:

http://www.livemodern.com/Members/lavardera/miscmodproj/jeffscolor/fsimage_view?portal_status_message=Your%20changes%20have%20been%20saved.

And I should add that I am enjoying that I now have license to refer to my wife as K-dog and I am wondering how my daughter will respond to L-dog, and our cat to cat-dog...

That url got funky - if it won't load try this stripped down version:

http://www.livemodern.com/Members/lavardera/miscmodproj/jeffscolor/fsimage_view

But, I gotta say that I do like the white and chocolate brown and the more I look at it, the more I like it. After a few more days I'll ask Mark to mock up two of the favorites.

hi jeff

i was thinking of a a "drier" brown, almost like a sandy dark walnut. any way some yellow can be removed from the brown?

another color mix i like is the one for caban's bags etc. a very pale aqua (or an aqua-ish white) and such a "dry" dark brown. now i am not certain that is suitable for an outdoor cladding - just a mix i like and it may work for one of your interiors, depending on outside.

See above, I replaced the ofiginal brown with a "drier" brown. What do you think?

it may be my screen, or my vid card, i dunno, but they don't look much different. at any rate i do like the clean feel. i also like lav's modified colors, although i would opt for a light sand or straw instead of a buff (much less red) but that subtler blue looks really really good. it would look quite good with a white counterpart as well - or even a brown. did you see that ipe deck in the flat roof thread? what a nice wood. mark says it is cheaper than cedar in tx. is it something you're allowed to use for cladding?

We have discussed Ipe. The problem is 1) dealing with the interface and tying it in with the stucco (which, by zoning, must be 75% of the exterior) and 2) having yet another trade on the site. Right now, it looks to be cheaper with 100% stucco. It can still be changed, but I'm not sure I have the psychic energy to deal with one more change of that magnitude.

Hmmm? I took out about half the red and yellow and replaced them with black. Perhaps I should have left the original brown up there, but I was thinking there was getting to be too many images.

See above.

wanted to send this all weekend but the resident house computer decided to go party elsewhere with a pal...

in the jan-feb issue of dwell, the article on p.110 (little san fran modern house) has many of the browns i have in mind. in fact, the front slats are installed over a dark blue ply which shows in the intervals between the slats. that's kina neat, and maybe you could get that part done later, like a slat screen over a dark blue stucco. in the photo, the facade brown is very soft, almost suede-like - i guess i could call it a grey-brown. also, the brown of the victorian to the right of the house is dark and "dry". the picture on p.111 shows well how the two browns contrasts with white. then p.112-113, the kitchen work plan has a dark walnut unit. p.113 show it juxtaposed with bright white chairs - quite crisp and clean. i know the wall on p.117 is white, but - must have been the light at the time the pict was taken - the photo itself renders it as a putty brown-grey which i like a lot. that could be good with white also, the bigger part of your house being the darker color, and the entrance the brighter?

I think by "dry," you mean a cooler (less red in it) brown. That is what I tried to do when I redid the image, although computer screens are notorious for representing color differently. Anyway, I will play around more later. As for where the light and dark go, we have been thinking that the area around the 18 little windows needed to be the darker color to let the windows be a bit more discrete.